Drop the neutral?

[cycotcskir]

Or you could get your scuba gear on, grab a sledge and some cable staples (stainless of course) and swim down to the bottom to drive your ground rod and install your GEC.

Nahhh! A 120V hammer drill works much better. It's less effort, besides have you ever tried to swing your arm under water?

 

[acrwc10]

I was thinking, since there is really nothing to connect the GEC to except the ground rods, then it really doesn't have to be larger than a #6, right?

That is correct. 3/0 is not necessary. Also throwing a #6 into the water will not do much good either. Water is a bad conductor of electricity. Now go under water and drive a rod you may be on to something good.

You still need a equipment ground run with the phase conductors in case of a ground fault a head of the transformer. The OP didn't say how big the phase conductors are, and these are feeders so they will need a grounding conductor sized to 250.122. as required by 250.32(B) If the Feeder is 200 amps or less your fine with a number #6 CU. but if it has "increased in size" phase conductors or is larger then 200 amps you would need a larger grounding conductor.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

You still need a equipment ground run with the phase conductors in case of a ground fault a head of the transformer. The OP didn't say how big the phase conductors are, and these are feeders so they will need a grounding conductor sized to 250.122. as required by 250.32(B) If the Feeder is 200 amps or less your fine with a number #6 CU. but if it has "increased in size" phase conductors or is larger then 200 amps you would need a larger grounding conductor.

The feeder being 200-amps (or less or more) has nothing to do with the #6 GEC {250.53(E)}. The EGC will be sized the same size as the phase conductors (type W cable).

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

but you still need a grounding conductor with the feeders, do you not?

Yes.....555.15(B)

 

[acrwc10]

The feeder being 200-amps (or less or more) has nothing to do with the #6 GEC {250.53(E)}. The EGC will be sized the same size as the phase conductors (type W cable).

The EGC doesn't need to be a full sized ( 3/0 ) unless the phase conductors were increased in size for any reason. 250.122 says the EGC only needs to be #6 for 200 amp, and if your GEC is back at the source there is no need to run two conductors back to the source for EGC and GEC The one #6 serves as both. Now if the phase conductors were increased in size for voltage drop or what ever reasons then you would need to increase the EGC in size "proportionately" to the phase conductors, and you could still use it as the GEC and EGC as long as the grounding electrode is connected to it.

 

[benaround]

The EGC doesn't need to be a full sized ( 3/0 ) unless the phase conductors were increased in size for any reason. 250.122 says the EGC only needs to be #6 for 200 amp, and if your GEC is back at the source there is no need to run two conductors back to the source for EGC and GEC The one #6 serves as both. Now if the phase conductors were increased in size for voltage drop or what ever reasons then you would need to increase the EGC in size "proportionately" to the phase conductors, and you could still use it as the GEC and EGC as long as the grounding electrode is connected to it.

From what I have read on this Forum, the 2011 NEC, addresses the misconception that

a GEC and EGC can be the same conductor.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

..... and you could still use it as the GEC and EGC as long as the grounding electrode is connected to it.

I want that to be true, can you give a code reference to back that up. Installing a separate GEC when I've got a full size (full in the sense it's the same size as the phase conductors due to the cable used) EGC it seems useless to install an EGC, but the way I read the code, I need to install an EGC along with the GEC.

 

[hurk27]

From what I have read on this Forum, the 2011 NEC, addresses the misconception that

a GEC and EGC can be the same conductor.

Well that would contradict 250.142, which allows a grounded circuit conductor to be all three, an EGC, GEC, and the neutral, what about when we run the GEC to the meter and it connects to the panel through the grounded circuit conductor, but the service neutral is also bonded at the meter to provide fault path (for what ever reason:-?) but it' s allowed?

so if he runs a wire sized at least to table 250.66 and call it a grounded conductor it would seem 250.142(A)(3) would allow it to serve all three wires even if he dont need a neutral?

 

[LarryFine]

Well that would contradict 250.142, which allows a grounded circuit conductor to be all three, an EGC, GEC, and the neutral, what about when we run the GEC to the meter and it connects to the panel through the grounded circuit conductor, but the service neutral is also bonded at the meter to provide fault path (for what ever reason:-?) but it' s allowed?

On the service (line) side of the main disco, yes.

 

[hurk27]

250.30(A)(1) has about the same language. at least the way I read it?

I can't find anything that would prohibit the primary EGC from being used as the GEC for the secondary, if it is sized to 250.66

250.30(A)(4)(3) exception seems to allow this??? not sure though

 

[hardworkingstiff]

250.30(A)(4)(3) exception seems to allow this??? not sure though

I think you might be right, thanks.