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[Jim W in Tampa]

Thanks for the reply 480sparky.

I,ll post some pics Monday evening.

It appears that this is 30 years of non permitted adds in the building, although when we looked at the job prior to bid, all appeared like just another older building remodel. We never expected to see what we found.

On top of the other items I mentioned earlier, the ceiling is used for environmental air and there are several fixtures wired in ENT.

Seen open wiring 277 and 208 ,no conduit just thhn laying on ceiling towels and splices. Festoon wiring for 30 feet from ceiling. Problem here is after power turned on they do whatever they want.

 

[dcspector]

I am listening, what part of my statement is untrue?

No biggy Bob I did not understand your last sentence in that post. Also, when I cite existing issues to the EC he or she simply passes it over to the Building Owner whom I never meet. However, the EC is in contact with them. It all works out in the end.

 

[iwire]

Also, when I cite existing issues to the EC he or she simply passes it over to the Building Owner whom I never meet.

Why is it the ECs problem to deal with at all?:-?

I really do not understand this at all.

You could meet the property owner, or you could send the properaty owner a letter could you not?

However, the EC is in contact with them. It all works out in the end.

Yeah the issues get corected and the EC is stuck doing the job of the inspectors ........ it works out just great for the inspectors ........ not so great for the EC.

 

[iwire]

Also, when I cite existing issues to the EC he or she simply passes it over to the Building Owner whom I never meet.

Why is it the ECs problem to deal with at all?:-?

I really do not understand this at all.

You could meet the property owner, or you could send the property owner a letter could you not?

However, the EC is in contact with them. It all works out in the end.

Yeah the issues get corrected and the EC is stuck doing the job of the inspectors ........ it works out just great for the inspectors ........ not so great for the EC.

 

[plugster]

Just Curious

Just Curious

As an Inspector I would cite the existing issues and then it is between you and the GC to sort it out. Sorry "open up a can of worms" Could be more money in your pocket. Sorry Ken I did not mean to quote you.

So, an EC pulls a permit, performs the work that the permit was issued for...You show up, inspect the work the permit was pulled for and it is fantastic....But you see some shotty work in another part of the building on your way out that is probably been that way for 20 yrs....You will fail the inspection on the permitted work????

 

[dcspector]

Why is it the ECs problem to deal with at all?:-?

I really do not understand this at all.

You could meet the property owner, or you could send the property owner a letter could you not?




Yeah the issues get corrected and the EC is stuck doing the job of the inspectors ........ it works out just great for the inspectors ........ not so great for the EC.

Bob......The EC is not doing my job. They simply pass it off "our citation" to the owner. The owner contacts me and they pay the EC to correct. What is your problem with Inspectors?.......In these trying times the EC simply loves the additional income. You said in a previous post "making my job easier" My job sucks... as as now "Chief Electrical inspector" in our District. walk a mile in my shoes with the DCMR existing codes amendment. I simply enforce what is written.

 

[dcspector]

So, an EC pulls a permit, performs the work that the permit was issued for...You show up, inspect the work the permit was pulled for and it is fantastic....But you see some shotty work in another part of the building on your way out that is probably been that way for 20 yrs....You will fail the inspection on the permitted work????

I did not "FAIL" crap. Read my last post!

 

[M. D.]

Greg I gotta tell you ,.. I have a problem getting cited for work I had nothing to do with ,.. you inspect my work pass or fail then take up the existing violations with the owner ... don't put me in the middle ,.. and I am not the mailman you can deliver the citation yourself,.. or pay me to do it ,..$100.00 minimum delivery charge.

 

[dcspector]

Greg I gotta tell you ,.. I have a problem getting cited for work I had nothing to do with ,.. you inspect my work pass or fail then take up the existing violations with the owner ... don't put me in the middle ,.. and I am not the mailman you can deliver the citation yourself,.. or pay me to do it ,..$100.00 minimum delivery charge.

I simply give up with all of you. I have an existing condition code written by the District of Columbia.....Work here and come see me. I don't care if you have a problem with me personally but I must enforce what is written. I will not pay you as a 'delivery boy"....take it up with others. You are missing the point! I cite you for existing violation and you take it to Building owner. You pass what you installed and then you get paid to correct the existing.....Problem with that?

 

[M. D.]

Post the law please,... or a web site so I can read it. I have a hard time believing that this is my responsibility. If it is ,.. I will offer an apology for jumping ugly with you.

 

[dcspector]

Post the law please,... or a web site so I can read it. I have a hard time believing that this is my responsibility. If it is ,.. I will offer an apology for jumping ugly with you.

I did not say it was your responsibility.........District of Columbia Municipality Regulations. Jumpin ugly don't bother me. Do you work in DC or plan to?

 

[iwire]

I simply give up with all of you.

Greg if you stop and think about it for just moment don't you see why this would be unfair to the EC?

I have an existing condition code written by the District of Columbia.....

OK here is an example.

Lets say I add some dinning room outlets in someones home, I call you to inspect that work and all my work is code compliant. But while inspecting you notice that someone has changed the main panel from a 100 amp to a 200 amp without changing the service conductors.

Do I get signed off or do you refuse to sign off until the HO decides to do something with service conductor violation?

I can not imagine any law or code allowing that. :-?

If you have such a code well then I guess you have to enforce it but don't get angry because I think it is unfair to ECs.

You are missing the point! I cite you for existing violation and you take it to Building owner.

And I think your missing the point.:smile:

I did not create the violation so you should not be citing me for it.

This would be like my getting a ticket from a cop because I was standing beside him when he saw a speeder drive by.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I simply give up with all of you. I have an existing condition code written by the District of Columbia.....Work here and come see me. I don't care if you have a problem with me personally but I must enforce what is written. I will not pay you as a 'delivery boy"....take it up with others. You are missing the point! I cite you for existing violation and you take it to Building owner. You pass what you installed and then you get paid to correct the existing.....Problem with that?

Greg,
I think this is the issue here. Why is the EC involved? How can you cite the EC for something he didn't have anything to do with?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Greg,
Are you really still on the 96 NEC?
http://dcra.dc.gov/dcra/cwp/view,a,1343,q,609535.asp

 

[M. D.]

Is this what you cite ???

SECTION EX-1601J GENERAL

EX-1601.1 Scope. Retroactive requirements as described in Section 410 shall comply with the
requirements of this Chapter.

EX-1601.1.1 Limitations of scope. Retroactive work shall apply to the affected element,
equipment, or system without requiring retroactive work for other areas, systems or equipment in
the existing building.

 

[dcspector]

Not angry at all and see your point and hope you see mine as well. I cite the existing violations to the EC on job and pass what they installed, then the EC takes the existing violations to owner because owner is not on the job (this ain't residential ya'll) then the EC on job gets paid to correct at an additional fee.......after the owner calls me and agrees to correct.....I have tried to make this as simple as I can and that is my summary of events. Thanks all.

 

[M. D.]

I did not say it was your responsibility.........District of Columbia Municipality Regulations. Jumpin ugly don't bother me. Do you work in DC or plan to?

You said you would cite me and then it is my responsibility to get it to the owner and to have him comply somehow,.. yet I have no authority to do so and quite frankly he may not be interested in hiring me to do this added scope of work.

As far as working there ,.. what a crap shoot ,.. I install an outlet and now I have got to rewire the whole house ,.. How on earth do the E.Cs give prices??

 

[M. D.]

Not angry at all and see your point and hope you see mine as well. I cite the existing violations to the EC on job and pass what they installed, then the EC takes the existing violations to owner because owner is not on the job (this ain't residential ya'll) then the EC on job gets paid to correct at an additional fee.......after the owner calls me and agrees to correct.....I have tried to make this as simple as I can and that is my summary of events. Thanks all.

Where is the language that allows you to make these citations ??? This is ass backwards and I doubt the language exists.

 

[480sparky]

Here's my take:

If I'm on a job that has obvious existing violations, I won't wait to stand an inspection to raise the issue. I feel it's my job to inform the owner that there's some deficiencies. I'll tell the owner up front there's going to be problems. "This and this and even this will need to be corrected".

I'll discuss it with the owner, and give him/her a price. They are free to have me do the work, or get someone else.

When the inspector shows up and passes my work but fails the other stuff, guess who's gonna get the work?

I'd be more than happy to pass on the information to the owner cause I'm gonna shine like a polished mirror in the eyes of the owner at that point.

 

[plugster]

Not angry at all and see your point and hope you see mine as well. I cite the existing violations to the EC on job and pass what they installed, then the EC takes the existing violations to owner because owner is not on the job (this ain't residential ya'll) then the EC on job gets paid to correct at an additional fee.......after the owner calls me and agrees to correct.....I have tried to make this as simple as I can and that is my summary of events. Thanks all.

So the job the EC is there for would pass and permit cleared.....But they are cited for other violations...What happens to the EC if owner does not want to fix??? Are they on the hook for anything??, or just no more permits would be issued to the location until violations are fixed. I think I am starting to see where you are comming from...