Panel Clearance

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360Youth

360Youth

Senior Member
Location
Newport, NC
I had to do a generator/ATS install today and this is what I find for house panel access.

DrillPress.jpg


DrillPress-1.jpg


Changing the SE conductors was no big deal but I had to sit on the bench for most of the neutral/ground separation. (The ATS comes with service disconnecting means.) I had to unbolt the drill press and slide it out of the way to make it a little easier. The panel cover does open all the way, at least.

I post this because I wonder how some of you deal with these things. I have told HOs in the past when they have tool boxes or other things that have to be moved to leave them out of the way for inspection, but as you can see, this is full size permanent work benches. For those here that are inspectors, what do you do when coming across these existing conditions. I have not broached the subject with the HOs to forewarn them of any possible issues with the inspection.
 
C

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
I would of told them to get out the Skil saw and whack a couple feet off the end of the bench before you started. It has to be done, it might as well happen before you need to do your work.

I definitely wouldn't have waited until the job was done to say something, now they might take their sweet time doing it because the job is finished, who cares if the inspection happens quickly now?
 
360Youth

360Youth

Senior Member
Location
Newport, NC
Pierre C Belarge said:
Thom
What is going to happen when the inspector comes to inspect your work? Have you given him a "heads up" as to what to expect?
Click to expand...

No I have not. The install is in a different county and have not had the chance to speak to him about it. We have a few more things to do before it is ready to call in

Pierre C Belarge said:
Where are your labels?
Click to expand...

The ATS has all of its labels and I have never been asked to label a residential house panel, only on commercial jobs.

IMAG0263.jpg


Edit to add:
I know how much you like your pics, Pierre. ;):grin:
 
G

guschash

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
No expansion fitting need? Where the generator located? I had one panel last month where the panel was in the cabinet above the range. I told them they had to move the range and take down the cabinet. I haven't heard taken from them yet.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Pierre C Belarge said:
Thom
What is going to happen when the inspector comes to inspect your work? Have you given him a "heads up" as to what to expect? If not, I would.
Click to expand...

What is to tell the inspector?

The existing conditions have nothing to do with the new work. If the inspector has an issue with the bench they should talk to the home owner.:smile:
 
electricmanscott

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
TOOL_5150 said:
Agreed, the panel was there before the workbench. Its the customers issue if the inspector calls clearance issues.

~Matt
Click to expand...

I agree, in theory. In reality, as has been brought up here many times, some inspectors lack the "see things in a rational way" gene and would make a big stink about it to the electrician. It's not right and I wouldn't put up with it but it does happen.

As for the clearance issue I'd say just another day in the Electrical Biz.
 
1793

1793

Senior Member
Location
Louisville, Kentucky
Occupation
Inspector
360Youth said:
I had to do a generator/ATS install today and this is what I find for house panel access.

DrillPress.jpg


DrillPress-1.jpg


Changing the SE conductors was no big deal but I had to sit on the bench for most of the neutral/ground separation. (The ATS comes with service disconnecting means.) I had to unbolt the drill press and slide it out of the way to make it a little easier. The panel cover does open all the way, at least.

I post this because I wonder how some of you deal with these things. I have told HOs in the past when they have tool boxes or other things that have to be moved to leave them out of the way for inspection, but as you can see, this is full size permanent work benches. For those here that are inspectors, what do you do when coming across these existing conditions. I have not broached the subject with the HOs to forewarn them of any possible issues with the inspection.
Click to expand...

I had to add a panel beside this one. At least you could move the drill press I could not move the Lift.
 
360Youth

360Youth

Senior Member
Location
Newport, NC
iwire said:
What is to tell the inspector?

The existing conditions have nothing to do with the new work. If the inspector has an issue with the bench they should talk to the home owner.:smile:
Click to expand...


That is my initial thought, but I have never dealt with this jurisdiction. I don't think he has any leverage on me to make any changes, but some AHJs could really give a HO a hard time if he felt like it. Like most, he will probably not be surprised at all at what the homeowner does after CO. Mostly out of ignorance, but still. :smile:
 
steve66

steve66

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Engineer
With the drill press out of the way, what is the difference between sitting on the workbench, and having a panel mounted very low in a wall where you have to sit on the floor and work??

If the bench were 30" wide, and 3' deep (from the picture, the part right under the panel doesn't quite make it), couldn't it be considered a working platform that complies??

Steve
 
360Youth

360Youth

Senior Member
Location
Newport, NC
steve66 said:
With the drill press out of the way, what is the difference between sitting on the workbench, and having a panel mounted very low in a wall where you have to sit on the floor and work??

If the bench were 30" wide, and 3' deep (from the picture, the part right under the panel doesn't quite make it), couldn't it be considered a working platform that complies??

Steve
Click to expand...

Are you saing that if you can stand on the work bench and have your required head clearance (it is a tall ceiling garage), even though the panel is at your feet, than there are no clearance issues?
 
steve66

steve66

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Engineer
360Youth said:
Are you saing that if you can stand on the work bench and have your required head clearance (it is a tall ceiling garage), even though the panel is at your feet, than there are no clearance issues?
Click to expand...


I hadn't actually thought about the head clearance issue.

I was just wonering how this is any different from a very tall panel that sits only a few inches off the floor.

If you can stand (or sit) on the table and all the working clearances are there, is it a code violation just because you have to climb up on the table? Or is it a violation because the panel is at ankle height? I think the answer to both of these questions is "no".


Steve
 
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