AFCI's on the front page again

[Buck Parrish]

This article is on the front page of todays news paper the " Indianapolis Star" today.
It seems that Indiana is the only state not require afci's any where. This article say's "the only" state not to require the afci's in bedrooms.
No TR's either.
If your interested here is the article, click on the link
http://www.indystar.com/article/20090603/NEWS05/906030355

 

[powerslave]

I thought I heard somewhere that New Jersey also did not require AFCIs?

 

[infinity]

I thought I heard somewhere that New Jersey also did not require AFCIs?

That was until about a month ago when they adopted the 2008 NEC. There is a 6 month grace period where you can still not install them under the 2005 code.

 

[electricmanscott]

That was until about a month ago when they adopted the 2008 NEC. There is a 6 month grace period where you can still not install them under the 2005 code.

I never seem to understand this. Why not just say the 2008 code will be enforced an a particular date and go with it.


Maybe I should move to Indiana. If it was good enough for Larry Bird it's certainly good enough for a schlub like me. :grin:

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Scott
you should move to Indiana.
Now that AFCIs and other items are not required, I am sure the housing market will just boom in Indiana.


It is funny how the car industry is saddled with $1000s of dollars of safety equipment for less than the average of $30,000, yet $400 for a $150,000 house is too much, go figure. Since it has to do with politicians, I say I am not surprised, they really do not know what they are doing, they just go with who supplies them with the most money.

 

[infinity]

I never seem to understand this. Why not just say the 2008 code will be enforced an a particular date and go with it.

Actually the reason is very good for the six month grace period. Jobs that were planned and bid under the 2005 NEC but that didn't start until the 2008 adoption would require re-engineering, re-submittal, change orders, more financing and more delays. IMO this concept makes a lot of sense.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Scott
you should move to Indiana.
Now that AFCIs and other items are not required, I am sure the housing market will just boom in Indiana.


It is funny how the car industry is saddled with $1000s of dollars of safety equipment for less than the average of $30,000, yet $400 for a $150,000 house is too much, go figure. Since it has to do with politicians, I say I am not surprised, they really do not know what they are doing, they just go with who supplies them with the most money.

I think a lot of the objections to the AFCI are based on what we and the CMPs were told and the fact that most everything that we were told about the AFCI device itself in the first two code cycles was a complete fabrication.

 

[brantmacga]

Actually the reason is very good for the six month grace period. Jobs that were planned and bid under the 2005 NEC but that didn't start until the 2008 adoption would require re-engineering, re-submittal, change orders, more financing and more delays. IMO this concept makes a lot of sense.

this is why we purchased permits for everything bid under the '05 before 1/1/09, the date it took effect here. I'm still working on jobs under the '05 that started after the first of the year, because we planned accordingly. Also, work I've done that was permitted after the first on electrical is still under the '05 because the contractors pulled their building permits last year. The effective code is based on the issuing date of the building permit, not the mechanicals.


anything that wasn't awarded before the cut-off date was re-bid under the '08 code, and jobs that we knew wouldn't start until the '08 took effect were bid as such.

So the grace period is not absolutely needed. Contractors should be more aware of laws that affect their business.

______________________________________

edit;

I also want to add that just because AFCI's aren't required doesn't mean they aren't allowed. I was up-selling complete AFCI protection for all circuits before the '08 took effect. I've got them installed on every circuit specified in the '08 in my house; been that way for a couple of years now. Why shouldn't my customers be afforded the same protection?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I think a lot of the objections to the AFCI are based on what we and the CMPs were told and the fact that most everything that we were told about the AFCI device itself in the first two code cycles was a complete fabrication.

I understand and agree that we were all snowballed for the first 6 years of the product everyone was purchasing.

My quip is really about the "perceived" cost difference to housing, when the cost differentials are really the builders themselves.

I am not a proponent of the TR receptacles for all dwellings, and never have been, it should be a design issue based on the owner of the property.
More kids are seriously injured falling down stairs and running through sliding doors than from the receptacles. What about those issues?

 

[infinity]

this is why we purchased permits for everything bid under the '05 before 1/1/09, the date it took effect here. I'm still working on jobs under the '05 that started after the first of the year, because we planned accordingly. Also, work I've done that was permitted after the first on electrical is still under the '05 because the contractors pulled their building permits last year. The effective code is based on the issuing date of the building permit, not the mechanicals.


anything that wasn't awarded before the cut-off date was re-bid under the '08 code, and jobs that we knew wouldn't start until the '08 took effect were bid as such.

So the grace period is not absolutely needed. Contractors should be more aware of laws that affect their business.

It has nothing to do with being aware of the laws. Your entire scenario is contingent upon have a set date for implementation of the new code. If they told you in 7/1/08 that the new code becomes effective on 1/1/09 then you by default have a six month period to file. We don't have that luxury since the adoption date is not determined that far in advance.

 

[brantmacga]

It has nothing to do with being aware of the laws. . . . . . . . .

So one day you were on the '05 and then they switched to the '08 w/o anyone knowing about it ahead of time?

 

[Mr.Sparkle]

So one day you were on the '05 and then they switched to the '08 w/o anyone knowing about it ahead of time?

No, it has been hammered home from many directions, not to mention it (adopting AFCI in general, as well as '08 NEC) has been delayed a number of times, basically if you are an EC in NJ and are not aware of the change or 6 month grace period you are, for lack of a better word.....dumb.

 

[infinity]

No, it has been hammered home from many directions, not to mention it (adopting AFCI in general, as well as '08 NEC) has been delayed a number of times, basically if you are an EC in NJ and are not aware of the change or 6 month grace period you are, for lack of a better word.....dumb.

Agreed. It's just that the projected adoption date changed about 5 times since last year. The 2008 code wasn't formally adopted until the spring of 2009. There was mention of September 08 and then a few other dates in between.

 

[electricmanscott]

Agreed. It's just that the projected adoption date changed about 5 times since last year. The 2008 code wasn't formally adopted until the spring of 2009. There was mention of September 08 and then a few other dates in between.

For all the ill's of Massachusetts Government, and the list is endless, they have the electrical code implementation perfected. Ok nothing's perfect but it is done well. The new code is adopted every three years on Jan 1. Simple.

 

[brantmacga]

Agreed. It's just that the projected adoption date changed about 5 times since last year. The 2008 code wasn't formally adopted until the spring of 2009. There was mention of September 08 and then a few other dates in between.

Okay.

I can understand your point more clearly now.

 

[infinity]

For all the ill's of Massachusetts Government, and the list is endless, they have the electrical code implementation perfected. Ok nothing's perfect but it is done well. The new code is adopted every three years on Jan 1. Simple.

That would be fine but here in NJ they keep us guessing.

Seems that the people in charge of the adoption need to go through all of the changes to decide if they want to accept them. Then the document needs to go to the Governor for signing into law. They also want to allow time for everyone to complete a 10 hour code update class so that they are aware of the changes before it becomes law. Yes a hard date, the same every three years, would make things less confusing.