Blowing Lamps

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laketime

laketime

Senior Member
I have heard and read of many reasons for lamps blowing too quick. I am looking at doing some work at a resort facility and they say they are blowing lamps way too fast. The chief "engineer" says he believes it happens due to dirty power coming in from the power company. Could that cause the problem? If so, what can be done to fix this problem?
 
raider1

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
If these are incandescent lamps, then what is the measured voltage at the socket?

Standard 120 volt incandescent lamps don't last as long when the supplied voltage is higher than 120 volts. I usually recommend using an incandescent lamp with a 130 volt rating as they seem to last much longer than a typical 120 volt lamp or even a hard duty lamp.

Chris
 
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hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
There are many factors that can cause a good quality lamp to go bad before they should, but it seems in these days it is hard to find a good quality lamp, to start with as most are being manufactured in China. this is of course if your talking about incandescent type?

some of the reason's I have found are:

Vibration, Doors slamming, someone jumping up and down on the flood above
high Wind blowing on the fixture
Over voltage, POCO taps set for voltage drop, and when the load is less at night the voltage goes up.

Voltage spikes caused by inductive kick back, from many sources before the meter and after,

Doing a good PQ test and monitoring would be my first suggestion.

We have had customers tried to say it was something we didn't wire right, but in reality as long as you have installed to code and have done your best you shouldn't bare this cost, as PQ problems are something that is hard to design around and can't always be expected in most cases.
 
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hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
H'mmm It seemed I was typing when you replied lol<<<<<<slow typer:cool:

Well with your response still I would do or have someone to do a PQ test and monitor, but the end results you will probably find needing a system of SPD's (transient suppression) ate the service and at the loads to bring it back into acceptable levels. ballast I would suspect low cost fixtures, I once tried some low cost wall packs once and had a terrible time of failures, went back to using RUUD fixtures and not had a problem since. CFL's can be a problem depending upon the type, PL types that have a separate ballast can fail due to high ambient temps around the ballast, screw ins can be just weeding out the bad ones as it seems like there at least one or two in each case. but a PQ test will let you know what your dealing with.
 
laketime

laketime

Senior Member
I would like to do the PQ test myself. Who manufactures a quality (yet low cost) product for this?
 
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hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
laketime said:
Do you do the test yourself or do you sub it out to a company? If you do it yourself, what equipment do you have that you use?
Click to expand...

We farm out the jobs with a high incentive of liability such as date centers and larger services, but most smaller jobs can be done with a good voltage recorder (one that has a fast response time to record spikes), and a good incite of knowing how to correct a problem when found (SPD's, Line Filters Etc...), also knowing what to look for is a must as like I said low quality fixtures, fixtures improperly installed, such as CFL can lights installed in insulated ceilings, are all part of solving the problem as a whole. Temp measuring equipment to measure temps around ballast can be helpful too. but getting into this field takes allot.
 
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hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
laketime said:
I would like to do the PQ test myself. Who manufactures a quality (yet low cost) product for this?
Click to expand...

Ok the guys are going to laugh at this one,
as cheep of a company we are, we have an old chart recorder, Yep paper and all LOL, but it works so hush. I'll have to dig it out at the shop tomorrow, as I cant remember what the foreign brand it is, found it at a yard sale:roll:

hey it was cheep and probably the only way we even have one :mad:

Maybe someone will chime up on some low cost equipment out there, and also do some searches on power quailty testing as to what to do to solve problems when found, as it all depends upon the type of problem. I'm sure we can help with most here.
 
tshea

tshea

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
laketime said:
I would like to do the PQ test myself. Who manufactures a quality (yet low cost) product for this?
Click to expand...
Rent one! You can rent a Dranetz BMI or Fluke PQ meter for a couple hunddie a week.
Check the specs so you get what you need.

As for teh reason you are loosing the lamps and ballasts, I would guess you have PQ issues. Possibly many transient voltage surges. Just my guess. The recording meters can prove this.
 
beanland

beanland

Senior Member
Location
Vancouver, WA
Start Simple

Start Simple

I suggest starting with a few voltage checks with a multi-meter. If the overall service voltage is 125V or higher, that is probably most of the problem. If the load is badly balanced and the neutral is long, the voltage on one phase may even be higher. Fix these first.

If you do not see anything odd with a multi-meter, that is when getting a recorder is required. You will need one that can log average, max and min voltage. A Fluke 287/289 is not "too" expensive.

If the problem is over-voltage, the fix can be harder to find. If the problem is found to be voltage spikes, a few well-placed surge arresters may solve the problem. Better yet, find the source of the surges/spikes and fix it there.
 
laketime

laketime

Senior Member
beanland said:
I suggest starting with a few voltage checks with a multi-meter. If the overall service voltage is 125V or higher, that is probably most of the problem. If the load is badly balanced and the neutral is long, the voltage on one phase may even be higher. Fix these first
Click to expand...

what do you mean the neutral is long?
 
beanland

beanland

Senior Member
Location
Vancouver, WA
Long Neutral

Long Neutral

If the load is unbalanced, the neutral carries current. This means there is a voltage rise/drop along the neutral from the source (POCO transformer). If the unbalance current is high and the resistance of the neutral is high (long) then there will be voltage rise/drop along the neutral. Where there is voltage drop on the heavily loaded leg, there is a voltage rise on the lightly loaded side. If you start at 125V-125V at the transformer and there is 5V of drop per conductor on the loaded side, the voltage could be 115V-130V at the load.
 
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hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
he means where you have a long service drop or lateral, from the transformer to the panel, you can have a neutral balance problem that can cause a higher voltage on one leg and a lower voltage on the other if the loads are not balanced in the panel. so by taking voltage readings from the neutral to each phase would show this.
 
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220/221

Senior Member
Location
AZ
A bad neutral connection at the servive or as part of a MWBC will also cause high voltage on one leg (and lower on the other)
 
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