Load Center in Kitchen

Status
Not open for further replies.
ItsHot said:
Is a horizontal installed panel a NEC violation?:-?
Click to expand...

No, but having breakers positioned with down 'on' is a violation.

So you can lay a panel on it's side but you could only use half the spaces.

Some may also mention 110.3(B) and some panels actually have a label that indicates 'top'.
 
iwire said:
OK it looks like you got me again, how about a code reference 'cause I can't find one.
Click to expand...

Im not sure of code reference but I think what he may be trying to reference is not the horizontal panel as in the picture but a panel with cover removed faces up (like installed in a floor or counter)
 
iwire said:
OK it looks like you got me again, how about a code reference 'cause I can't find one.
Click to expand...

240.33 Vertical Position. Enclosures for overcurrent devices
shall be mounted in a vertical position unless that is
shown to be impracticable. Circuit breaker enclosures shall be
permitted to be installed horizontally where the circuit breaker
is installed in accordance with 240.81. Listed busway plug-in
units shall be permitted to be mounted in or

edit: BTW I am not trying to GET you... I just thought it should be pointed out that the NEC DOES prefer vertical mount... it is not just either or.
IMO there would have to be a VERY good reason to do it... not just convenience.
 
Last edited:
Twoskinsoneman said:
240.33 Vertical Position. Enclosures for overcurrent devices
shall be mounted in a vertical position unless that is
shown to be impracticable. Circuit breaker enclosures shall be
permitted to be installed horizontally where the circuit breaker
is installed in accordance with 240.81. Listed busway plug-in
units shall be permitted to be mounted in or

edit: BTW I am not trying to GET you... I just thought it should be pointed out that the NEC DOES prefer vertical mount... it is not just either or.
IMO there would have to be a VERY good reason to do it... not just convenience.
Click to expand...

I think this is not refering to sideways as shown in the picture although the handles still need to be up when in the on position which is covered by different section. What this section is referring to is a panel mounted on non vertical surfaces like a floor or ceiling or facing up on top of equipment.
 
kwired said:
I think this is not refering to sideways as shown in the picture although the handles still need to be up when in the on position which is covered by different section. What this section is referring to is a panel mounted on non vertical surfaces like a floor or ceiling or facing up on top of equipment.
Click to expand...

You may have a good point.

I can see the reasons for not allowing panels to be face up like a table, I see no reason not to allow them sideways as long as the handle orientation is maintained.
 
Was there a code year when 110.26 did not read as it does now ?
I have seen far worse than this one. Do question why it is sideways unless as suggested it was an illegal apartment.
 
kwired said:
I think this is not refering to sideways as shown in the picture although the handles still need to be up when in the on position which is covered by different section. What this section is referring to is a panel mounted on non vertical surfaces like a floor or ceiling or facing up on top of equipment.
Click to expand...

It is only my opinion but that is not what it says. The very next sentence in 240.33 talks about what qualifications are required If the panel HAS to be mounted horizontally. If you look at the whole paragraph is it obviously comparing vertical and horizontal. CLEARLY the codes has other terminology than "vertical" for face up situations...

If you want to try to twist the definition of vertical to mean "face-up" there are going to be a LOT of situations in the code...that are misunderstood.

Although it is understandable that this absurd view point may be supported by someone who did not even know about 240.33 and is trying to save face................:)
 
Well thanks, I took exception to calling kwireds and my thoughts ridiculous.

FWIW the rules changed in 1999, it seems until then the section meant exactly what kwired said it did.

7. Can a load center be mounted in a horizontal position?
Article 8, page 71 of the 1925 NEC
The term “horizontal” can be interpreted two ways:
1) Rotated on the wall 90 degrees
2) Mounted on the ceiling or on or under the floor
Code Reference: 240.33 and 240.81
The issue over horizontal mounting goes back to the 1925 NEC. The specific issue was to prohibit fused switches from being mounted on the ceiling (under a floor) where the constant vibration from the floor traffic could cause the fuse to dislodge from a fuse clip and drop against the enclosure creating a ground fault.
The language in 240.33 was changed in the 2002 NEC with a substantiation that revolved around rotating the enclosure 90 degrees not from wall to ceiling or floor.
240.33 Vertical Position.
Enclosures for overcurrent devices shall be mounted in a vertical position unless that is shown to be impracticable. Circuit breaker enclosures shall be permitted to be installed horizontally where the circuit breaker is installed in accordance with 240.81. Listed busway plug-in units shall be permitted to be mounted in orientations corresponding to the busway mounting position.
240.81 Indicating.
Circuit breakers shall clearly indicate whether they are in the open “off” or closed “on” position.
Where circuit breaker handles are operated vertically rather than rotationally or horizontally, the “up” position of the handle shall be the “on” position.
Click to expand...

iaei-western.org/Files/2008/2008_CodePanel_Q&A.doc

The rules change again in 2002.
 
iwire said:
Well thanks, I took exception to calling kwireds and my thoughts ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Actually I said it was absurd. And let's be honest, it is certainly no more egregious than comments others (including you) have said. Please don't take exception. Everyone on here pokes fun with sometimes lewd comments. I truly had no idea you would be so sensitive to it.
 
I often see panels without doors mounted face-up in laundromat islands, between the back-to-back machines.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top