SAFETY & CERTIFICATION in Afghanistan

[sespllc]

I am here in Afghanistan doing electrical work. I insist upon Code in all that we do. As I insist upon it, I insist upon other folks to adhere to trade rules and regs. Now, the other day and electrician and I were taking a panel cover off and one 3-ph breaker popped out and took out a phase. Then the adjacent breaker popped out and that circuit went down. The A/C unit went out but the A/C unit was not suppose to be on the circuit. So, why does that happen? Well, the previous workers on the electrical did not label their work. Plus, the breakers were not the right breakers for the box.

Also, there were live wires under the building that were left over from another job. No one took them out after the equipment was removed and then the breaker was turned on and no one knew the wire was under the floor boiling water when it rained. We knew there was a problem when there was about 7 amps on the ground ring. Well, no wonder! So, I insist upon code cert personnel and lic. At least at some point this person will have known something to be able to get a lic.

Soldiers getting electrocuted, abandoned power cables being hot, no proper ground/bonding, using the wrong armor wire cable, using no grounds,..just an overwhelming list of bad work. Plus, personnel think since they do electrical work at home they are now the experts in an environment that has never been code, so they put in something not understanding the overall power architecture in a facility. ALWAYS DEMAND THE RIGHT THING! CODE IS IMPORTANT! THERE IS NO SECOND CHANCE AFTER SOMEONE IS ELECTROCUTED BY STUPIDITY!

 

[Buck Parrish]

Yes , I have read concerns here in the states about personel being electrocuted in Iraq, too. Grounding is a big issue. The sand does not make a good install for a grd. rod
Just curious, does your ppe include kevlar vest?

 

[Smart $]

...ALWAYS DEMAND THE RIGHT THING! CODE IS IMPORTANT! THERE IS NO SECOND CHANCE AFTER SOMEONE IS ELECTROCUTED BY STUPIDITY!

So what was the critical operation which overrode deenergizing the panel before you removed the cover?

If your gonna preach, be an example of what you preach!!!

 

[sespllc]

Answer to your query

Answer to your query

So what was the critical operation which overrode deenergizing the panel before you removed the cover?

If your gonna preach, be an example of what you preach!!!

Understand the question. The removal of the front panel was to access the breakers for visual inspection. During the PM process it is required to do a visual. Sand and other grit accumualte in the panel. Then a PM team comes by to perform their work as required after the check sheet is submitted. Nothing abnormal with this procedure and it is done with all safety procedures approved with certified electricians. The key point is that prior to this inspection, there were several organizations and personnel connecting circuits and placing wire. They were required to work under NEC Code. All inspections are completed while the curcuits are hot, it is just when actual hands on work in a panel is performed, then the panels are denergized. Thus, the respsonsible contractor did not do their job as the inspections showed that all work was performed within code. Thus, you have to go back and remediate their work and charge the USG twice for work that should have been done right the first time. In answer to your question, Yes, we practice what we preach, all of the time. Safety first!

 

[sespllc]

Query re: PPE

Query re: PPE

Yes , I have read concerns here in the states about personel being electrocuted in Iraq, too. Grounding is a big issue. The sand does not make a good install for a grd. rod
Just curious, does your ppe include kevlar vest?

The PPE includes Kevlar, helmet, and other extras for traveling. Typically, you wear it for areas that are hot. But, when we do our actual work around the job; we make sure we are "nimble" to be able to access our work space.

Yes, the sand sucks for a grounding system. Someone specified digging a ground rod hole with an auger in some hard soil - mostly rock - and then placing sand around the ground rod. During the inspection, of course, I was able to pull a 10' ground rod out of the ground with my hands. So, whomever made the decision to do that was way off base. The remediation was to provide condutive backfill for the rods. Also, using the concrete slab is a great way to find a good ground. Spec for my work is less than 5 ohms which I can get anywhere, with good design practices.

The grounding problem is not that difficult, but proper NEC Code procedures need to be followed. In my discussions with people most of the time proper application of code and installation techniques will provide the best solution to a grounding problem.

 

[Smart $]

...In answer to your question, Yes, we practice what we preach, all of the time. Safety first!

No, that does not answer my question.

...and no matter how you dress it up, you're putting it in black and white that your "safety first" practice is a facade. I could get long-winded on the matter, but I'm hoping you are professional enough to realize what I'm trying to tell you. FWIW, I work several jobsites where if the safety personnel by whatever means became aware of you doing your inspection in the manner you say you did it, you would be escorted from the premises post haste with check in hand along with a "pink slip" noting the reason for separation and noting you are ineligible for rehire at any company facility for a period of no less than 90 days.

I understand there is a time and place for inspection of energized equipment. From what you have stated thus far, this is not one of them. Here you are ranting about shoddy work, and yet you are entrusting your well-being, perhaps your life, and your partner at hand, to that same workmanship when you open an energized panel.

...and visually, the inside of that panel will likely look the same, but a lot safer for you and your partner, if it is deenergized prior to opening. Much safer for checking the physical integrity of connections, too. Should I go on? I wouldn't want to renege on not being long-winded about it :roll:

 

[neutral]

Also, there were live wires under the building that were left over from another job. No one took them out after the equipment was removed and then the breaker was turned on and no one knew the wire was under the floor boiling water when it rained.
could you explain how the water was being boiled without a heating element attached to the wire?

 

[StephenSDH]

professional

Practice what you preach. There are many good reasons to work on live equipment and many reasons not to. I don't think you should jump on him without any knowledge of why he had the cover off.

Don't come to my house, my cover panel is still off.

 

[bobsherwood]

I am amazed at a couple of these posts!!! The NFPA 70 E requires fire proof PPE WHEN EVER EXPOSED TO LIVE PARTS... AND, THEY ARE CONCIDERED LIVE UNTIL PROPERLY CONFIRMED TO BE OFF. No ands ifs or buts. So, if you want to claim to be professional, you will wear all required PPE everytime you open anything that has exposed electrical parts. And they will be concidered hot until you prove otherwise.

 

[Smart $]

Practice what you preach. There are many good reasons to work on live equipment and many reasons not to. I don't think you should jump on him without any knowledge of why he had the cover off.

I had knowledge by his own words...

Understand the question. The removal of the front panel was to access the breakers for visual inspection. During the PM process it is required to do a visual. Sand and other grit accumualte in the panel. ...[omitted for brevity]... Safety first!

Don't come to my house, my cover panel is still off.

Fine by me ....e..r.r..rrr.....the coming to to your house part :grin:

You really should consider doing something about that :roll:

 

[Smart $]

could you explain how the water was being boiled without a heating element attached to the wire?

Similar to the reason you will get low megger readings when moisture has permeated the wiring system. Pure water is not a very good conductor, but as most surface water is far from impure, the conductivity can increase to the point enough current flows through the water to boil it. I'm uncertain whether poster was actually relating a true account or just a making wise-crack remark.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Similar to the reason you will get low megger readings when moisture has permeated the wiring system. Pure water is not a very good conductor, but as most surface water is far from impure, the conductivity can increase to the point enough current flows through the water to boil it. I'm uncertain whether poster was actually relating a true account or just a making wise-crack remark.

It'll boil. I was inspecting a carnival and as I was walking the site I noticed that there was a bubbling puddle of water. I at first thought that it was a water leak and then I realized that a cord was laying in it. I reached back a couple of feet to pull the cord out of the water and burned my hand on it because it was so hot. Got everything turned off, pulled out the cord and it was a simple nick in the insulation.

 

[billsnuff]

sespllc

sespllc

First, Thank-you for your service.........Second, NFPA 70E 2009:

Table 130.7(C)(9) Removal of bolted covers 240V and below requires HRC 1,
(4 cal/cm^) Long sleeve shirt and long pants and face shield. (Unless an Arc Flash Survey has been done and equipment is accordingly labeled.

If you don't have a copy, request one, then you can be part of the safety solution.

good luck and God speed.

 

[USMC1302]

I agree that all safety precautions should be taken. I will also say in my experience, what has been described here is light years ahead of the work I saw just a few years ago. How we did not end up injuring or killing more servicemen/women amazes me still. To all of you assisting in keeping our military members safe, THANKS. I'll review my digital photo archive for the water boiling episodes and "spot the violation" which would be easier as a "spot what's right" thread.

 

[nosparkspls]

Overseas work. Contingency Ops

Overseas work. Contingency Ops

I want to say a few things about life in the dirt. First off, its dangerous. We all know its dangerous. I have been there done that. It is easy to sit back and "armschair QB" about the problems faced. Every day you will deal with substandard installations, equipment manufactured in oddball countries, ect. The best defense is to use your best sound judgement. If u open stuff make sure u are protected. Sheild your face, wear real leather gloves or hot gloves, and make sure u are not wearing standard issue fleece or other garments that will melt to your skin. Everyday electrical work is being done in a very poor manner by seriously unqualified personell. Good luck getting the right parts for the job. Good luck getting anything on time. We do the best we can do. Its a contingency operation. We all do our best to right the wrongs of less than adequate installations. Unless you have been there and truly experienced the problems faced, take it easy.

 

[nightmare]

amps per leg (phase) or total amps?

amps per leg (phase) or total amps?

I'm also there and my question is about current delivered by a generator. This is, hopefully, a shortcut to getting a quick answer as I am new to the forum and looking forward to a constructive educational two way street while involved.

The particulars are as follows:

• The name plate on the unit indicates 250 kVA/200 kW
• The unit produces approximately 390 V from phase to phase.
• The number I get using the basic formula for available current is approximately 380 A at 3 phase.

My questions are:

Can that 380 A be delivered through each leg?
If the demand was high enough, could I expect to put a probe around any one of the individual phase conductors and measure 380 A?

 

[mdj1320]

it must be like working in the service department fixing other peoples crappy workmanship.i believe the installers need more supervision.