water..no trip

[jdr]

how is it that a home can flood out the basement with water levels above the receptacles and no breaker trips. there must be something to this I don't get. this seems to happen frequently.

 

[billsnuff]

this is a link to an explanation of water as a conductor. quick google search.

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/gen01/gen01755.htm

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

how is it that a home can flood out the basement with water levels above the receptacles and no breaker trips. there must be something to this I don't get. this seems to happen frequently.

For a breaker to tip it needs to exceed its amperage rating. Water is a conductor only because it is not pure, if it was it would be an insulater. Water across a receptacle will cause current to flo but unless it is more than 15 or 20 amps then the breaker looks at it as a normal load.

 

[jdr]

Jim, thanks for your reply..it's just that it would seem that there would or should be enough current flow to trip the breaker..dirty water covering the recep. this definately would not be pure water.

 

[drbond24]

Jim, thanks for your reply..it's just that it would seem that there would or should be enough current flow to trip the breaker..dirty water covering the recep. this definately would not be pure water.

It is not enough that the water is just 'dirty.' There has to be conductive material in dissolved in the water. Dirt isn't a good conductor either, so muddy water isn't going to conduct much differently than regular water.

 

[76nemo]

Jim, thanks for your reply..it's just that it would seem that there would or should be enough current flow to trip the breaker..dirty water covering the recep. this definately would not be pure water.

It might "look" dirty, but still may not have all that many conductive properties.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Try this. Get a clean plastic 5 gallon bucket, fill with tap water and drop the end of an extention cord in it. Put your amp meter on it. Now slowly add salt.Needless to say you can't do this on a gfi

 

[raider1]

Try this. Get a clean plastic 5 gallon bucket, fill with tap water and drop the end of an extention cord in it. Put your amp meter on it. Now slowly add salt.Needless to say you can't do this on a gfi

You can do this on a GFCI protected receptacle if you used a non-grounded extention cord.

Chris

 

[iwire]

Try this. Get a clean plastic 5 gallon bucket, fill with tap water and drop the end of an extension cord in it. Put your amp meter on it. Now slowly add salt.Needless to say you can't do this on a gfi

Two wire cord or three wire cord?

With a two wire cord and a plastic bucket the GFCI will not trip.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Two wire cord or three wire cord?

With a two wire cord and a plastic bucket the GFCI will not trip.

Yes agreed if 2 wire cord and bucket is dry on outside.

 

[kameele]

Even lake water is not highly conductive. a few years back a neighbor's wooden boat had the level switch on its bilge pump get stuck and the boat filled and sank over the course of several days. when we discovered it, we managed to get the switch to operate and the whole system, battery, pump, and all, worked perfectly happily underwater. of course, since the boat was sitting on the bottom, pumping didn't accomplish a whole lot. :wink:

 

[steve66]

For what its worth, it takes 15-20 amps to trip a breaker, but it only takes a few milliamps to shock you.

Steve

 

[drbond24]

For what its worth, it takes 15-20 amps to trip a breaker, but it only takes a few milliamps to shock you.

Steve

This is a very good point. Just because we're saying that pure water isn't a very good conductor and the water in your basement won't trip breakers doesn't mean you should go around wading in it. It can kill you waaaaaaaay before it trips the breaker.

 

[hillbilly1]

Soil conductivity plays a roll also, I had to trouble shoot a gas station where the metal doors were shocking employees. Narrowed it down to a 20 amp breaker in the fuel pump panel. The gas company electricians (I use that term loosely) had installed a pvc nipple between the panel and the wireway on the outside wall. There was no ground pulled to bond the panel and wireway together. Opened the wireway, and found a #12 stripped and laying against the metal wireway. Even with probably a couple hundred feet of 3/4 ridgid steel conduit buried underground, it still did not have low enough resistance to trip the 20 amp breaker.

 

[LarryFine]

Needless to say you can't do this on a gfi

Sure you can. The GFCI shouldn't trip unless you include the EGC.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Sure you can. The GFCI shouldn't trip unless you include the EGC.

What and have an ungrounded plastic bucket ? LOL