Quick Chicago question

[peter d]

I truly doubt that.

Me too. I've made the challenge before, but I can guarantee that if you put a romex crew against a pipe crew on a house, the romex crew would be much faster. Don't forget once you install all that EMT you still have to put wires in it.

 

[iMuse97]

Me too. I've made the challenge before, but I can guarantee that if you put a romex crew against a pipe crew on a house, the romex crew would be much faster. Don't forget once you install all that EMT you still have to put wires in it.

For you and iwire:

Thanks for the challenge. Probably bragging is getting me in too deep, but when I did these, we figured a EMT crew of 2 needed one more day to do the house than an ROMEX crew. So at our labor rates, 500 is a little to cheap; let's say $1500, b/c one of the guys has to have a plan in his head. Our expectation of our crews was that a good EMT guy on a frame structure is expected lay out boxes, drill and put up 500' of pipe per day. Some of us could easily do 6-7. I have done 800+ on a 9 hour day in the basement. And we averaged 2000' per house. But on the custom houses we did, it was always really nice to have that pipe and add something else later without too much trouble.

Keep in mind that this was all pre-2008. (and anyway, have any houses been built since then?)

Romex: layout, drill, pull, splice, trim.
EMT: layout, drill, pull, splice, trim.

On EMT we save material running two 3-wire networks in each HR. And we use 40-50% less copper b/c no copper equipment ground. This saves material and labor on splicing with less wirenuts, and easier installs with less box fill problems. Switch-legs and travelers usually run in a pipe that would already be there for a feed.

Well, gotta go try to make some money.

 

[iMuse97]

someone in another thread mentioned that a farmer got killed from EMT when a cow knocked it loose (and the pipe was the ground), so . . . it got me thinking that, hey, what if Mrs. Oleary's cow (or someone else's) got loose in the city again ?? Think of all the damage that cow could do, knocking EMT loose everywhere (and electrocuting people, causing fires, widespread panic, activating code purple on the homeland security threat level , calling out the national guard and putting the Strategic Air Command on high alert, etc etc)

So, imho, I am convinced that Chicago should bite the bullet and get rid of the silly (and dangerous) light weight EMT requirement (for little girls) and require it all to be rigid. (maybe even throw in a requirement for a minimum size of, say 1-1/4 too, just for kicks)

I like the way you think:grin: Maybe electricians could get some respect again.

 

[ArcNSpark]

Hey Karl...thanks for taking the time to explain your methods...although I will still say that piping a house seems totally foreign to me. And so you don't think I'm just a Romex runner, I do most of the commercial/industrial jobs for our small company because I am pretty damn handy with a bender. I enjoy it and have the skills to warrant those jobs.

As for a new residence, however: I have done a similar sized house (2500-3000 sq. feet) in a week with one other guy. That starts with walking in on Monday morning with nothing laid out and ends with rough inspection on Friday afternoon. Sometimes it also includes us running the coax and CAT5 as well for TV and phones.

Obviously you are doing everything that you need to do in Chicago to get the job done with a nice green sticker at the end, and if you haven't been sent to the bread lines yet in this wonderful economy, you must be doing it well. I just can't imagine how you can measure and bend pipes, cut them to length, ream them, and connect them to a box, then fish that same pipe, attach your THHN's, and then pull them in as fast as another guy can shove a 14-2NM through a hole in a fiber nailup box.

 

[problemsolver600]

I know I can't measure, bend, run pipe, and pull THHN as fast as I can run 14/2 (w/G), but I can handle a change from a ceiling fixture single pole switch to a two wire fan control after the drywall is up with a lot more speed and much less cost in pipe then I can in romex.

My friends cabin in Michigan which is being rehabbed after squirrels tried to widen a romex occupied hole will not have that problem again because the entire cabin, including communications, will be in pipe.

Any change in technology related to IT will be done as simply as pulling a new cable from anywhere to anywhere.

I will tell you that I do find a lot of romex in Cook County from "after work", even though some communities do not allow big box retailers to even sell non-metallic cable and conduit.

I do not understand this practice of not allowing the sale, due to the fact that it forces local contractors to purchase materials not being used locally somewhere out of the area, taking tax revenue with it.

Bite the hand that feeds you!

But what do you expect from an area that has more top government executives in prison than most other areas.

 

[peter d]

I know I can't measure, bend, run pipe, and pull THHN as fast as I can run 14/2 (w/G), but I can handle a change from a ceiling fixture single pole switch to a two wire fan control after the drywall is up with a lot more speed and much less cost in pipe then I can in romex.

True, but there are ways around that too. Prewire with 3-wire cable or use one of those nice wireless controls they have now.

Any change in technology related to IT will be done as simply as pulling a new cable from anywhere to anywhere.

If that's really a concern, you can prewire a home with ENT to all the data drops. But everything is wireless nowadays so that doesn't really matter anymore.

 

[nakulak]

layout (?) romex crews layout their work ?

 

[Bobhook149]

all EMT is crazy in RES. The reason for any fire is poor workmanship! Romex is safe when installed by someone who cares. The cause or the problem with romex will exist with pipe or EMT if installed by the same person,....carelessness!

 

[peter d]

layout (?) romex crews layout their work ?

Why wouldn't they? :-?

Oh wait, you're just jesting again.

 

[iMuse97]

layout (?) romex crews layout their work ?

you gotta tell'em where to put the boxes and measure to get the center of the room for the bedroom lights.

 

[iMuse97]

all EMT is crazy in RES. The reason for any fire is poor workmanship! Romex is safe when installed by someone who cares. The cause or the problem with romex will exist with pipe or EMT if installed by the same person,....carelessness!

Maybe crazy or not. I've done 400 homes in EMT never did one in ROMEX until 4 years ago.

I bought my 2story and basement 10 yr old house four years ago, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I would not have even considered a house that was in romex b/c of all the electrical things I have added and plan to add.

When I add electric bath heaters on the second floor I will just pull another network and it's done.

When I add a whole-house fan I'll pull another circuit to the second floor furnace and it's almost there.

What you don't see and understand if you haven't done EMT in wood framed houses is how easy it is. Two guys would have the upstairs (4BR 2BA) drilled & piped with recessed cans in the hall and baths and foyer light done shortly after lunch. And we'd pull the upstairs in three hours. Not only is it crazy! its fun, after a fashion.:grin: And we'd get paid very well for it. What's not to like?:smile:

 

[nakulak]

show us some nice pics !

Pipe the next one in rigid, and show us some pics of that too.

it sounds like fun. I'm thinking of moving to Chicago. (do they make crab cakes us there ?)

 

[Minuteman]

layout (?) romex crews layout their work ?

Of course! How else are you going to rope a 2500 sq. ft. house with just one 250' roll?

 

[Minuteman]

show us some nice pics !

Pipe the next one in rigid, and show us some pics of that too.

it sounds like fun. I'm thinking of moving to Chicago. (do they make crab cakes us there ?)

Yeah, except they call it... pizza.

 

[iwire]

(do they make crab cakes us there ?)

Whats up with Crabs in your area?

I went to Virginia beach and I think you got crab legs if you bought a pack of smokes. :grin:

I order a steak and it comes with a side of crab legs, I go to breakfast and I had a crab omelet. Not complaining but whats the deal, do crabs just walk out of the ocean and into the nearest store, bar or restaurant? :grin:

 

[peter d]

Whats up with Crabs in your area?

Two words: Chesapeake Bay.

 

[iMuse97]

Two words: Chesapeake Bay.

so that's where the "house in which you are" is.

 

[iMuse97]

show us some nice pics !

Pipe the next one in rigid, and show us some pics of that too.

it sounds like fun. I'm thinking of moving to Chicago. (do they make crab cakes us there ?)

I never took pics of anything. Just entered the digital age a couple months ago. :roll: I'll try to get some.

Crab cakes? If you call a tube steak a crab cake you can have all you want. just don't ask for catsup on it.

 

[iwire]

For you and iwire:

........................


Romex: layout, drill, pull, splice, trim.
EMT: layout, drill, pull, splice, trim.

On EMT we save material running two 3-wire networks in each HR.

No wonder you save money ......... you don't run any EMT at all. :grin:

I think your list is missing something.

Romex: layout, drill, pull, splice, trim.
EMT: layout, drill, Run, Measure, Cut, Measure, Bend, EMT Than pull, splice, trim.

 

[nakulak]

I never took pics of anything. Just entered the digital age a couple months ago. :roll: I'll try to get some.

Crab cakes? If you call a tube steak a crab cake you can have all you want. just don't ask for catsup on it.

dude .