New Energy Bill

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ItsHot

Senior Member
The new "energy bill" was passed. What are your thoughts on this with it pertaining to the electrical industry. Let's not let this get "political", stay on the topic. I know very little about the bill. Does it include things such as grid upgrades, or is it much broader than that?:-?
 

ItsHot

Senior Member
political

political

Problem is, the entire thing is political. Since the bill in its very nature is political, and staying on topic without the requisite political content could be difficult indeed. :-?
Yes, I agree with that! As I was creating the thread, my thoughts were the same as yours!! But I was thinking the bill's direct impact on the electrical industry? If you think about it, everything is "political", including this forum. If it involves people...then it's political!:grin:
 

Minuteman

Senior Member
The new "energy bill" was passed.
It narrowly passed the house, it still has to go to the senate before going to the White House. There is a (slim) chance it could get voted down.

Let's not let this get "political", stay on the topic.
There is a difference between "political" - as in party affiliation, and "political" - as in understanding civics.

I know very little about the bill.
Neither does any of the members of Congress that voted on it. In fact, late Friday afternoon, a 300 page amendment was added, and approved, without even offering copies for review. Yet it passed.
 

dereckbc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Plano, TX
Yes it wil have an effect on the electrical industry. The plan will enact if I understand correctly a tax on coal to generate electricity of $50 per Mwh. Currently coal cost around $5 per Mwh (5-cents per Kwh). With the new tax now around $55 per Mwh or 55-cents per Kwh. Right now I pay around 9.7 cents per Kwh.

Also contained in the bill is a hike in fed gasoline fuel tax from 18-cents per gallon to 70-cents per gallon.
 

ike5547

Senior Member
Location
Chico, CA
Occupation
Electrician
Yes it wil have an effect on the electrical industry. The plan will enact if I understand correctly a tax on coal to generate electricity of $50 per Mwh. Currently coal cost around $5 per Mwh (5-cents per Kwh). With the new tax now around $55 per Mwh or 55-cents per Kwh. Right now I pay around 9.7 cents per Kwh.

Also contained in the bill is a hike in fed gasoline fuel tax from 18-cents per gallon to 70-cents per gallon.

How and where from did you come up with these specific figures? From this bill?

http://energy.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=EnergyBill.2009

Which section(s)?
 

ike5547

Senior Member
Location
Chico, CA
Occupation
Electrician
I'm wondering if anyone could kindly summarize some specific details of what just passed the House. I have a vague impression of carbon credits, carbon caps, carbon trade offs, etc., but no real grasp of the specifics. And I'm wondering if anyone else does for that matter.
 

emahler

Senior Member
it's a feel good bill based on flawed reason and facts...if the items in this bill for fiscally reasonable, they would have already been done without having to pass a law mandating them.

so, now they are attempting to mandate ideas and methods that make no fiscal sense, to the detriment of our children and grandchildren, all the while convincing us sheeple that it's good for us...


we are giving away our future under false pretenses and misguiding notions...
 

emahler

Senior Member
here are a few highlights....

Title 1: Clean Energy
ACES includes a renewable electricity standard (RES) that requires 6 percent of electricity to come from renewable energy by 2012. This requirement will increase to 25 percent in 2025.
A federally mandated RES is proposed only because renewables are too expensive to compete otherwise. In effect, Washington is forcing costlier energy options on the public. Since renewables are lavished with substantial tax breaks, a national mandate will cost Americans both as taxpayers and as ratepayers. Any incentive proposed by government should in truth be read as a handout.




Title 2: Energy Efficiency
ACES includes new energy efficiency standards for new buildings, rebates to low-income families to buy Energy Star-rated manufactured homes,[3] appliances, and transportation.[4]
Energyefficiency can be beneficial for consumers, but it rarely does good when Washington tries to force it on them. Energy-efficient appliances and mechanisms will not painlessly lower electricity bills: These measures impose costs, and consumers benefit only if the energy savings outweigh such expenses. Mandatory improvements in efficiency usually raise the purchase price of appliances; sometimes the increase is more than enough to negate the energy savings. In addition, the forced reduction in energy use can result in decreased product performance, features, or reliability, which destroys value for the consumer.




Title 3: Global Warming Regulation
Although the rest of ACES is bad enough, the most alarming section is the government's attempt to regulate carbon dioxide. The third title of the bill introduces a "market-oriented" cap-and-trade program that would reduce carbon dioxide by 20 percent below 2005 levels in 2020 and by 83 percent below 2005 levels in 2050. Furthermore, it calls for strict oversight by FERC and calls on the Environmental Protection Agency to use the Clean Air Act to reduce black carbon and hydroflurocarbons.
Despite Washington policymakers' best attempt to call cap-and-trade a market-oriented approach, the reality is that any carbon capping plan is a costly energy tax in disguise?raising energy prices and unemployment with little, if any, environmental benefit. A global warming tax could generate as much as $1.9 trillion in tax revenue over eight years, which amounts to an annual tax of nearly $2,000 on every American household.[5]
 

emahler

Senior Member
This bill is the brainchild of Henry Waxman....one need only look at the current state of California to see the future of this country...yes, Waxman is from California...
 

ike5547

Senior Member
Location
Chico, CA
Occupation
Electrician
here are a few highlights....


Title 2: Energy Efficiency
ACES includes new energy efficiency standards for new buildings, rebates to low-income families to buy Energy Star-rated manufactured homes,[3] appliances, and transportation.[4]
Energyefficiency can be beneficial for consumers, but it rarely does good when Washington tries to force it on them. Energy-efficient appliances and mechanisms will not painlessly lower electricity bills: These measures impose costs, and consumers benefit only if the energy savings outweigh such expenses. Mandatory improvements in efficiency usually raise the purchase price of appliances; sometimes the increase is more than enough to negate the energy savings. In addition, the forced reduction in energy use can result in decreased product performance, features, or reliability, which destroys value for the consumer.

Title 2 is likely to be something very similar to our Title 24:

http://www.energy.ca.gov/2005publications/CEC-400-2005-006/CEC-400-2005-006-CMF.PDF

http://www.energy.ca.gov/2005publications/CEC-400-2005-005/CEC-400-2005-005-CMF.PDF
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Our energy foot print has be off the scale and no less than waste full for decades.
That in itself is what we all don't want to face and are frankly, late for the show! IMO.
 

powerslave

Senior Member
Location
Land of Lincoln
I'm wondering if anyone could kindly summarize some specific details of what just passed the House. I have a vague impression of carbon credits, carbon caps, carbon trade offs, etc., but no real grasp of the specifics. And I'm wondering if anyone else does for that matter.

I have been trying to get some explanation on the news but everything I've seen for the last couple of days has been about Michael Jackson.:-?
 

Minuteman

Senior Member
It's basically a sin tax on AmeriKans for being successful enough to afford luxuries that use energy. The average consumer will pay more for energy, and the costs for goods and services will increase. Tax us right into a 3 world economy.
 

Doug S.

Senior Member
Location
West Michigan
it's a feel good bill based on flawed reason and facts...if the items in this bill for fiscally reasonable, they would have already been done without having to pass a law mandating them.

so, now they are attempting to mandate ideas and methods that make no fiscal sense, to the detriment of our children and grandchildren, all the while convincing us sheeple that it's good for us...


we are giving away our future under false pretenses and misguiding notions...


Are you talking about the Bill the OP mentioned or everything passed in my lifetime? :grin:
 
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