Cha Ching

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muckusmc

Senior Member
Location
Roebling, NJ
Got hit with this first thing today. Electrical engineer specified 800A, 120/240V, 1 PH service for 12 apartments. PSE&G says that they only have 600A available. Distribution w/800A main fused switch is already installed, and wants switch changed out to 600A. PSE&G says the only way they will give 800A is if changed to 3PH. This is not feasible and would be very expensive. GC tried to tell me that I should have caught the mistake, I say it is the engineers problem as he is the one who specified the job. What do you think????
In the mean time am getting pricing together for switch change out. This is not going to be cheap. I'm thinking of billing the Owner and letting him fight it out with the engineer.
Aren't engineers suppose to check with the POCO before specifying a service?
What are your thoughts on this?
Thanks,
Muck
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
I think you should have checked with the POCO first. 'Round these parts, 600a is pretty much the top-end limit for single phase services. Larger ones are available, but I would need to contact the POCO with the location and a service calc. and their engineer would see if I could get an 800 1-ph or more.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I hate to say it but I think both you and the EE failed to what needed to be done.

Let me ask this, contractually who is the person responsible for power company arrangements?

It seems to me that single phase at 800 amps should have jumped out at you when you bid the plans.
 
charlie b

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
Did you do a load calculation, or did you obtain a copy of the load calculation from the engineer? This project should go no further forward, until it is clear what the minimum service size is needed to handle the calculated load.
 
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muckusmc

Senior Member
Location
Roebling, NJ
480sparky said:
I think you should have checked with the POCO first. 'Round these parts, 600a is pretty much the top-end limit for single phase services. Larger ones are available, but I would need to contact the POCO with the location and a service calc. and their engineer would see if I could get an 800 1-ph or more.
Click to expand...

I did question it with the POCO and the engineer - POCO about 5 months ago and apparently they lost the paper work. The engineer said that is what he wants and put it in. I sent the POCO a copy of the previous paperwork from 5 months ago just last week and they hit me with this today. I have worked with the engineer before and he is not very yielding on anything that he specs.
 
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wireguru

Senior Member
Seems like if the engineer designed the project specified the 800a service, and you are contracted to install the service per the plans, the onus is on the engineer. I have also seen many contracts which also place a burden on the electrical contractor to ensure the work is code compliant and meets poco requirements. Cant really tell you who's problem it is without seeing the contract, but I would fight it all the way.

Dumb question:
If infact a 600a service is ok with regard to load calcs, can you put 600a fuses in a 800a switch and call it a day? Or would the fuses be a different size?
 
LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Why not install 600a fuses in the 800a switch?

(Okay, so it took me a while to word my response.)
 
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Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
480sparky said:
Any reason why? I've installed several 'oversized' services with the intent on adding on more loads in the future.
Click to expand...

What do you mean? That's probably why they won't let him install smaller fuses because they figure he'll change them out to 800's when he blows the undersized 601's he used just to squeek by POCO requirements.

I think it falls on both the EC and EE, 800 amp single phase is not common and should of been a big red flag.
 
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hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Sounds like a double whammy from the POCO, which has engineers, and the design engineer. When is it proper for an electrician to tell two college educated engineers that they don't know crap? Why pay them big bucks if we have to redesign it to make to work? The POCO engineer needs to work it out with the electrical engineer. We are not the ones with the degrees:roll:
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
Cow said:
What do you mean?
Click to expand...

Here's a restaurant main panel:

800_Amp_Service.jpg


It's actually a 1200 amp panel with an 800a main in it. Three additional 2?" pipes were installed from the transformer. So in the future, the service could readily be upgraded without changing the panel.
 
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