California Certification Enforcement

[Sierrasparky]

Sure - the AHJ might have more clout, say just as the Pope or President, or on an equal level as an old well respected gray haired old lady would be acceptable as someone you might take the word of. But it (the law) does not say that - it just says "referral" and not anyone specifically required to make the referral... The complaint form is right there on the internet.... If they meant only for the Dali Lama to fill it out, I'm sure they would have not published it openly, and sent him a stack of his very own.... For his holiness to fill out. :roll: :grin:

On the comp' issue... Several years ago I bugged the former director of this fiasco about enforcement and her claim then was that workmens comp companies would enforce this BS law.... But ahhh.... That never happened, I assume because they chuckled and said NOT MY JOB!

Could you folks trust somone who knows somone at CSLB. They will take this and act on it especially if it comes from a AHJ. If any CA inspectors know first hand it is not this way I'd like to know. I have heard many times that there is nothing the AHJ can do. When you ask them if they file a complaint they always say NO!. Trust me they look at who the reporting authority is and what the complaint is about.

As far as Workers comp doing the enforcement I heard this also. But in the end it's the person who files a complaint that gets the action. The CSLB cannot act on no information.

 

[e57]

Your'getting too technical.
~~~~~ It says WILLFULL.

I totally get your point you making... But what is "willfull"? And this is kind of my point here. No one knows how many "Electricians" there are working - what we DO KNOW is how many active C-10's are, but not how many or if they have employees.... And what we also know is the number of eligible employees by how many are registered as Trainees, Apprentices and how many are Certified JW's.

The DAS only sent like two notices out (after the fact) that looked like junk mail to me... :roll: Not that someone like 'me' could claim ignorance.... But just about anyone else could.

Truthfully - in the last few years not too many employers have been even asking about certification - only a handfull when I was out looking a few years back - hell I had to explain what I was talking about to a few of them. :roll:

 

[Sierrasparky]

Well I don't know where you've been Iv'e known of the issue starting in 1999. The IEC and ABC sent out letters to all C-10 contractors.

I knew the program was slow to implement and I was very concerned as there were no schools for my then employees to attend.

I like the fact the law helps to create knowledgeable employees. For years a EC would hire any joe to wire up anything and without supervision . I blame those EC's who allowed this law to happen.

 

[ike5547]

Truthfully - in the last few years not too many employers have been even asking about certification - only a handfull when I was out looking a few years back - hell I had to explain what I was talking about to a few of them. :roll:

Also, customers and clients are completely clueless about it as well. That pocket card of yours means exactly zero to them.

 

[e57]

Could you folks trust somone who knows somone at CSLB. They will take this and act on it especially if it comes from a AHJ. If any CA inspectors know first hand it is not this way I'd like to know. I have heard many times that there is nothing the AHJ can do. When you ask them if they file a complaint they always say NO!. Trust me they look at who the reporting authority is and what the complaint is about.

As far as Workers comp doing the enforcement I heard this also. But in the end it's the person who files a complaint that gets the action. The CSLB cannot act on no information.

Here is one wierd item in this law we should get straight - the CSLB is not taking the referral directly.... They do not seem interested. They are REQUIRED however to open an investigation - by law within 60 days - upon a referral from the DAS. It is the DAS who is gathering the complaints. And do you even think they know what an AHJ is - Even if you called that person an Electrical Inspector, the very specific types of paper shufflers over there probably don't care who is on the form.

It says: "COMPLAINANT" then has a box for "Agency or Company"

Pretty clear to me they are inviting "Companies" or other contractors to complain. And I doubt that they care if that box is filled out.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Here is one wierd item in this law we should get straight - the CSLB is not taking the referral directly.... They do not seem interested. They are REQUIRED however to open an investigation - by law within 60 days - upon a referral from the DAS. It is the DAS who is gathering the complaints. And do you even think they know what an AHJ is - Even if you called that person an Electrical Inspector, the very specific types of paper shufflers over there probably don't care who is on the form.

It says: "COMPLAINANT" then has a box for "Agency or Company"

Pretty clear to me they are inviting "Companies" or other contractors to complain. And I doubt that they care if that box is filled out.

I think you are forgetting one thing. The CSLB can act independantly of such a violation. The CSLB was given the authority to enforce this law. They could care less how they got the info especially if it were to come from an inspector.

 

[e57]

Well I don't know where you've been Iv'e known of the issue starting in 1999. The IEC and ABC sent out letters to all C-10 contractors.

I knew the program was slow to implement and I was very concerned as there were no schools for my then employees to attend.

I like the fact the law helps to create knowledgeable employees. For years a EC would hire any joe to wire up anything and without supervision . I blame those EC's who allowed this law to happen.

Dare I say it I know for a fact that there is very little information getting to the Fresno area - No clue why that is? Maybe there are very few members of WECA and ABC there? I guess they don't get the news letter? But the CSLB has done ONE. (tiny snipet) And the DAS only did after the General deadline past....

Also, customers and clients are completely clueless about it as well. That pocket card of yours means exactly zero to them.

Well - you should tell them about it - in fact making it a selling point....

 

[Sierrasparky]

Dare I say it I know for a fact that there is very little information getting to the Fresno area - No clue why that is? Maybe there are very few members of WECA and ABC there? I guess they don't get the news letter? But the CSLB has done ONE. (tiny snipet) And the DAS only did after the General deadline past....

Well - you should tell them about it - in fact making it a selling point....

My town has 6000 people and a lot of contractors We all knew.
Do you know about the Law regarding Service and repair. ????????

 

[e57]

I think you are forgetting one thing. The CSLB can act independantly of such a violation.

TRUE

The CSLB was given the authority to enforce this law.

They always have had it. The B&P code has not changed. It just doesn't say anything about enforcing labor law/code in any specific way. But now they are kind of required to act on what the DAS was not allowed to do - that is act in a disiplinary way on anyones C-10 license.

 

[Sierrasparky]

But now it is pretty clear the CSLB can act.

 

[e57]

My town has 6000 people and a lot of contractors We all knew.

No let me get this straight - you all sit around the camp fire reading old IEC newsletters to eachother? Kidding.... But really ask yourself HOW they all knew?

Do you know about the Law regarding Service and repair. ????????

Which one specifically - do tell....

 

[e57]

But now it is pretty clear the CSLB can act.

Now they are REQUIRED TO - if momma, I mean the DAS tells them to....

 

[Sierrasparky]

No let me get this straight - you all sit around the camp fire reading old IEC newsletters to eachother? Kidding.... But really ask yourself HOW they all knew?Which one specifically - do tell....

The one where it becomes a criminal offense if you fail to reduce a job to writing inven a causal service call.

 

[e57]

The one where it becomes a criminal offense if you fail to reduce a job to writing inven a causal service call.

Oh yes... a few years ago -not being a believer in the handshake deal - I know nothing else. Then again you could have been talking about 3-day cancelation, or even the now fairly defunct HIS certification. (I still have mine - but I don't think they test for or issue them anymore???)

 

[cowboyjwc]

l will agree with you on the point that you cannot arrest that person if that is what is meant by enforcement.
You as an inspector have the right to ask for a certificate , and take notes on supervision. You can ask the employer to stop work if not compliant or you will initiate a complaint with the CSLB. It would up to them and thus be the problem of CSLB is the contractor fails to comply. That is the Authority I know you do Have.

Actually I cannot ask them to stop work. I am only empowered to enforce building codes and housing codes. I am not in the business of enforcing labor laws.

The State has never told or even asked the local AHJ's to check for the certification.

Several members of the Southern California Chapter of the IAEI were involved in writting the law and the tests and most contractors know more about the law than we inspectors do. It's never even been brought up at a Californial Electrical Inspectors meeting.

it's what we call a "feel good law" that has "toothless" enforcement.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Actually I cannot ask them to stop work. I am only empowered to enforce building codes and housing codes. I am not in the business of enforcing labor laws.

The State has never told or even asked the local AHJ's to check for the certification.

Several members of the Southern California Chapter of the IAEI were involved in writting the law and the tests and most contractors know more about the law than we inspectors do. It's never even been brought up at a Californial Electrical Inspectors meeting.

it's what we call a "feel good law" that has "toothless" enforcement.

John there is nothing in the lawbooks that say you cannot say the following.
"Hey Mr Ec. I think you should comply with the law. stop work or I'll send off a complaint to the CSLB"
The fact that you feel you have no authority is rediculous.
I know as a fact that an inspector signing a complaint form or making a call can get the balll roiiling very quickly.
Trust me on this I know somone in the know!!!!!!

 

[Sierrasparky]

Oh I forgot If a inspector is unwilling to file a complaint then please tell me how is the DAS or the CSLB ever going to know that there is a violation. If you never file that complaint how do you know the process does not work!
Geeze!!!!!

 

[e57]

Actually I cannot ask them to stop work. I am only empowered to enforce building codes and housing codes. I am not in the business of enforcing labor laws.

~it's what we call a "feel good law" that has "toothless" enforcement.

While you specifically can not ask anyone to stop work - you could very well fail an inspection if the work is not up to snuff. And while it is not specifically you JOB to enforce labor law - and I agree with that. You have every right as a private citizen to send a complaint to the DAS if you felt it necessary. You do have all the particulars at hand - company name, and work site - and it is not even your responsibility as a complainant to do the due diligence to ask for a name of any worker.... (you know - which hunt style...)

John there is nothing in the lawbooks that say you cannot say the following.
"Hey Mr Ec. I think you should comply with the law. stop work or I'll send off a complaint to the CSLB"
The fact that you feel you have no authority is rediculous.

I agre - ecept for the stop work part - unless there is a danger of life or limb - and at that moment I would think a stop work order is required.

Oh I forgot If a inspector is unwilling to file a complaint then please tell me how is the DAS or the CSLB ever going to know that there is a violation. If you never file that complaint how do you know the process does not work!
Geeze!!!!!

I too agree - I do however think that this type of enforcement is along the lines of the inquisition - just for the record. I know someone is going to say I'm contradicting - but so be it.... The consequences are too hash - yank someones license.... This law was one of two - if the SB-1362 law did not go through superceding the other - the other law which also passed would have required fines....

 

[Sierrasparky]

I don't think the law is too harsh. you are reading into it too much. Willful.
That statement alone make room for plenty of excuses.

And I respectfully don't agree with you reagarding the using the words stop. The contractor realizes that he is doing wrong. The Inspector is just stating that if he continues he will file a complaint. The choice is up to the EC.

Maybe we can get a legal opinion here????? anyone care to step in!:-?

 

[Sierrasparky]

Take a look at this PDF from the CSLB and what is expected from building officials!

http://www.cslb.ca.gov/Resources/GuidesAndPamphlets/CALBOGuidelines.pdf