Pool Light?

[The Iceman]

I have been asked to complete a list of repairs from a home inspector. He is asking for the branch circuit supplying a 12 volt pool light to be GFCI protected. If I?m reading 680.23 correctly, then as long as the transformer is listed for use with swimming pools, and the light operates at 15 volts or less then the branch circuit does not need to be GFCI protected. If it makes him happy I?ll do it but I really want to know for sure just for my own knowledge. I appreciate any help on the subject.

 

[infinity]

That's the way that I read it. What good would GFCI protection be on the line side of the transformer anyway?

 

[ivsenroute]

The HI probably did not know it was a low voltage light

 

[quogueelectric]

The average HI is usually commical as I have bought and sold a few homes recently as Pierre says I wonder what they are thinking.

 

[erickench]

If the transformer is plugged in to a receptacle that is within 20 feet of the inside walls of the pool then the receptacle itself must be GFCI as stated in NEC 680.22(A)(4).

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If the transformer is plugged in to a receptacle that is within 20 feet of the inside walls of the pool then the receptacle itself must be GFCI as stated in NEC 680.22(A)(4).

Heck for that matter if the receptacle is outside, in a garage crawl space, basement, etc it must be GFCI protected.

 

[guschash]

I found it easier to put both the motor and the pool light on CB GFIC's.

 

[hillbilly]

Not trying to highjack the OP's post....but....Speaking of pool lights...

If I have a 12V spot light that is mounted on some rocks beside a waterfall (for a swiming pool), and the light is above water level, does the LV transformer have to be listed for the application?
The transformer is plugged into a 120V GFI receptacle inside the pump room.

steve

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Steve, IMO if the light is not in the pool then there is no issue with the trany not being suitable for swimming pools. I do not, however , see an acception in 680.22(C)(4). GFCI protection on the primary is fine but it does not protect the secondary. How would you protect the secondary.

I think there should be an acception that either allows low voltage close to the pool or the system must be suitable for pool area use.

As I see it now you could not install the 12v fixture within 5- 10 feet without GFCI protection. If you are within 5' then you would need to be 12' above the water level( 680.22(C)(1).

Hmmm:-?

 

[erickench]

Not trying to highjack the OP's post....but....Speaking of pool lights...

If I have a 12V spot light that is mounted on some rocks beside a waterfall (for a swiming pool), and the light is above water level, does the LV transformer have to be listed for the application?
The transformer is plugged into a 120V GFI receptacle inside the pump room.

steve

If the light is above water level then it does not qualify as an underwater luminaire. Therefore NEC 680.23(A)(2) does not apply.

 

[Cavie]

I have been asked to complete a list of repairs from a home inspector. He is asking for the branch circuit supplying a 12 volt pool light to be GFCI protected. If I?m reading 680.23 correctly, then as long as the transformer is listed for use with swimming pools, and the light operates at 15 volts or less then the branch circuit does not need to be GFCI protected. If it makes him happy I?ll do it but I really want to know for sure just for my own knowledge. I appreciate any help on the subject.

Don't ever so somethig "Just to make him happy". Educate him so he learns to do it right.

 

[suemarkp]

If the light is above water level then it does not qualify as an underwater luminaire. Therefore NEC 680.23(A)(2) does not apply.

No, but 680.22(B) probably does. How close is this light to the water? If it is within 5', it may not be allowed period unless it is an underwater light. Whether they'll let you mount a listed under water light above the water, I don't know (doubt it).

 

[M. D.]

No, but 680.22(B) probably does. How close is this light to the water? If it is within 5', it may not be allowed period unless it is an underwater light. Whether they'll let you mount a listed under water light above the water, I don't know (doubt it).

If it is 5'1'' and supplied through a transformer listed for submersible lights I think it would be compliant.

Since low-voltage landscape
luminaires are supplied by a low-voltage power supply,
such as a transformer, providing GFCI protection on
the primary side of an isolation transformer will not
provide GFCI protection on the secondary side. GFCI
devices will not operate at the 15-volts or less supplied
by the secondary of the power supply. is leaves only
two options: one is to locate all low-voltage landscape
lighting at least 10 feet from the pool or fountain edge;
or, two, to use a special power supply.
There are low-voltage lighting power units that are
marked “For Use with Submersible Fixtures or Sub-
mersible Pumps.” In this case, a special transformer is
used that complies with the requirements in 680.23
for underwater luminaires installed below the normal
water level of the pool. This transformer is specifi-
cally listed for this use and is an isolated winding type
transformer with an ungrounded secondary similailluminated landscape and a safe installation......

Mark C. Ode, staff engineering associ-
ate at the Underwriters Laboratories Inc. in
the Research Triangle Park, North Carolina
Regulatory Services Department, was a senior
electrical specialist for the National Fire Protec-
tion Association. ..... a principle member of CMP-20 for the 1990 NEC and
an alternate member of CMP-3 for the 2002 NEC. He is a prin-
ciple member of CMP-4, an alternate member of CMP-3, and an
alternate on the NEC Technical Correlating Committee for the 2005

Click to read the article..
http://www.ul.com/global/eng/documents/offerings/perspectives/regulators/LVLighting.pdf

If you do read it he indicates that a low voltage area light could be within 5' ,..if fed from a pool light transformer.

 

[RICK NAPIER]

Thanks for the article it is a great resource. It will make it easier to convince contractors in the future.

 

[suemarkp]

I agree technically with what Make Ode says and think its a good solution. I just don't see a way to comply with the code as written if you're not using an underwater light. There's so much in the NEC that is annoying like this -- you have a special situation where you have a good technical solution. But a bull headed inspector can stop you because of code language.

I do wonder why they just don't put in an exception in the code to allow non-submerged lights of 15V or less to be next to a pool. Mandating a pool type transformer with total secondary isolation would be a good restriction to include. Even if somehow you have 15V across the pool, I wouldn't expect it to be lethal. You may feel it though.

 

[M. D.]

........ But a bull headed inspector can stop you because of code language.

I do wonder why they just don't put in an exception in the code to allow non-submerged lights of 15V or less to be next to a pool. Mandating a pool type transformer with total secondary isolation would be a good restriction to include. .....

Good post ,... we are the "they",.. I wonder if it has been tried?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I agree technically with what Make Ode says and think its a good solution. I just don't see a way to comply with the code as written if you're not using an underwater light. There's so much in the NEC that is annoying like this -- you have a special situation where you have a good technical solution. But a bull headed inspector can stop you because of code language.

I do wonder why they just don't put in an exception in the code to allow non-submerged lights of 15V or less to be next to a pool. Mandating a pool type transformer with total secondary isolation would be a good restriction to include. Even if somehow you have 15V across the pool, I wouldn't expect it to be lethal. You may feel it though.

This is the point I was making in post #9. As it is written it's no good even with a suitable trany. We all know how ridiculous that sounds since the trany would be good for the light in the water.

I must say if I inspected this and the trany was suitable for underwater pool light I would let it go. I think that was the intent but it never got worded that way.