Grounding at transformer

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wirebender

Senior Member
I have a 480 to 120/208y transformer.

As I understand, 250.30 requires me to treat the 208 panel just like a normal service panel. Bond the grounded conductor to the can and connect a GEC to the grounded conductor.

Does 250.30(A)(3)ex.2 allow me to connect the GEC to the Grounding bus in the 480 panel or do I have to run it to an electrode?
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
I have a 480 to 120/208y transformer.

As I understand, 250.30 requires me to treat the 208 panel just like a normal service panel. Bond the grounded conductor to the can and connect a GEC to the grounded conductor.

Does 250.30(A)(3)ex.2 allow me to connect the GEC to the Grounding bus in the 480 panel or do I have to run it to an electrode?
Yes "or" no, respective to your question :smile:
 

RUWired

Senior Member
Location
Pa.
I have a 480 to 120/208y transformer.

As I understand, 250.30 requires me to treat the 208 panel just like a normal service panel. Bond the grounded conductor to the can and connect a GEC to the grounded conductor.

Does 250.30(A)(3)ex.2 allow me to connect the GEC to the Grounding bus in the 480 panel or do I have to run it to an electrode?

Wirebender, you have to elaborate more on your set up. If your 480 volt panel-transformer-208 volt panel are part of a listed assembly rated and used as the service equipment, then yes, but if the transformer and 208 panel are remote from the service equipment, then you need to run a seperate GEC to a the required grounding electrodes.

Rick
 

ohmhead

Senior Member
Location
ORLANDO FLA
I have a 480 to 120/208y transformer.

As I understand, 250.30 requires me to treat the 208 panel just like a normal service panel. Bond the grounded conductor to the can and connect a GEC to the grounded conductor.

Does 250.30(A)(3)ex.2 allow me to connect the GEC to the Grounding bus in the 480 panel or do I have to run it to an electrode?

Well on most transformer installs the neutral is grounded in the transformer not in the panel to building steel and also to cold water and also to the grounding electrode system we run a grounding electrode conductor from the main service to the remote transformer location to a ground buss in the remote electrical room and then to each transformer in that remote electrical room .

1=Cold water
2=Building steel
3=grounding electrode connection

Heres why we do the three point connection if you lose one of the connections you have two more !

I think its in the code but i maybe wrong ?



Inside a transformer the neutral must be grounded so we run our grounding or bonding electrode conductor straight thur to the neutral and loop it back down to the case of the metal transformer bottom frame non cut thur a J-lug we kinda do this on every transformer at any voltage .


We do not bond the 480 panel just the transformer secondary of the 120/ 208 volt if its a 480 volt panel feed from the main service thats done already .

If the 480 volt panel is your service then yes you should .
 
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joebell

Senior Member
Location
New Hampshire
Inside a transformer the neutral must be grounded so we run our grounding or bonding electrode conductor straight thur to the neutral and loop it back down to the case of the metal transformer bottom frame non cut thur a J-lug we kinda do this on every transformer at any voltage

I'm trying to picture this, you are running the GEC to XO in the transformer and then looping it to the ground lug, so your GEC is also your system bonding jumper?
 

ohmhead

Senior Member
Location
ORLANDO FLA
I'm trying to picture this, you are running the GEC to XO in the transformer and then looping it to the ground lug, so your GEC is also your system bonding jumper?





Well inside your transformer your neutral must be grounded .


We have a 1/4" x 6 " x 24" inch copper grounding bar located in each remote electric room on the wall with insulators attached this is all connected to cold water ,building steel , and the ground rod system of the building which goes back to the main grounding electrode conductor at the main service with a full sized GEC.

I guess not thinking on most of our jobs we dont have just one transformer but multiple some rooms have two or three so we have to ground these when we hit the neutral with a bonding jumper in these transformers .

We bring the GEC connection from the copper grounding buss bar to the transformer also we use a buss bar crimp not a mechanical lug on buss bar
the size of this connection is the size of the ground needed on the secondary of that transformer not the full size GEC but the size for that secondary ground off that buss bar .

Now in the main electrical room our bonding jumper is inside the first disconnect or switchboard its a factory jumper a buss bar itself from neutral to grounding bar inside gear from there its grounding electrode conductor attached then it goes to the grounding buss bar on the wall of that room and then to each other electrical room .

But all transformers down stream are bonded with the same method .

We bring in the GEC to buss bar then to transformer go to the neutral first then loop it or bend it back down to the metal case of that transformer in one continuous un- cut conductor or wire from ground buss bar in room .
 
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Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
So I can't go to the grounding buss on my 277/480y panel unless it is the service entrance with the GEC present?

Guess I'll go to steel.

Thanks, gentlemen.
Not true. How does anyone get that out of this...

Exception No. 2: Where a separately derived system originates in listed equipment suitable for use as service equipment, the grounding electrode conductor from the service or feeder equipment to the grounding electrode shall be permitted as the grounding electrode conductor for the separately derived system, provided the grounding electrode conductor is of sufficient size for the separately derived system. Where the equipment grounding bus internal to the equipment is not smaller than the required grounding electrode conductor for the separately derived system, the grounding electrode connection for the separately derived system shall be permitted to be made to the bus.
 
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Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
Smart$, the way i understand exception # 2 is the SDS has to be part of the service entrance equipment, not the feeder.

Rick
Not my interpretaion... the SDS must to originate in listed equipment suitable for use as service equipment. Being an SDS means it is not part of the service system (i.e. the secondary). Yet this SDS originates in the transfomer, but I'm wondering if the meaning of originates can be stretched to include the secondary conductors and system disconnect(s).
 

Bea

Senior Member
Exception 2 is allowed when the SDS is incorporated in the service gear IE an MCC that has a service rated disconnect and that is because the grounded and grounding bussing are bonded together and continues through the section gear and considered one piece of equipment.
 

RUWired

Senior Member
Location
Pa.
, but I'm wondering if the meaning of originates can be stretched to include the secondary conductors and system disconnect(s).

You ask this question because if one were to remote the disconnect from this equipment and then have the option of installing the SBJ at the remote disconnect, one would say that the EBJ can be used as the GEC.

I would say its possible since the exception says system, if such an application were practicle. I would think that the disconnect would be a section that would bolt adjacent to the transformer section.

Rick
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
Exception 2 is allowed when the SDS is incorporated in the service gear IE an MCC that has a service rated disconnect and that is because the grounded and grounding bussing are bonded together and continues through the section gear and considered one piece of equipment.
I'm fairly certain what you describe is a permitted scenario... but I have to ask what is your source of info, and are you saying this is the only scenario which is permitted???
 
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Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
I would say its possible since the exception says system, if such an application were practicle. I would think that the disconnect would be a section that would bolt adjacent to the transformer section.

Rick
Exactly... it says where the system originates. The transformer secondary by itself is technically not a system... you have to have a system disconnecting means before it is a system.

The reason I bring this up is that I don't believe a typical dry-type transformer bears the required marking (not that the OP stated the type of transformer, just covering bases).
 
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