2009 nfpa70e

[Bryan Price]

I would like to hear of changes in your company "Policy" regarding the changes in the NFPA70E.
I have recently been "thrown" into this task. I realy didnt give it much thought before. But I have been given the task to update our policy dated 2002.
To be blatantly honest I dont know how you can follow NFPA70E to a tee.

Anyway any and all input would be most appreciated, good or bad.

Thanks in advance
Bryan

 

[raider1]

I have moved your thread to the safety forum, due to NFPA 70E being safety related and not NEC related.

Chris

 

[cadpoint]

You can get some ideas reading at this one web site, there is one arcticle about Canada's new standards and alot of articles around people not following NFPA 70E.

http://ecmweb.com/ now once there you can Search for articles about NFPA 70E and you can also go to their one section on Ops & maintance
http://ecmweb.com/ops_maintenance/ or as mentioned above
http://ecmweb.com/archive/

Or you could go get lost over at NFPA.

http://www.nfpa.org/search.asp?query=nfpa+70e

Myself it's been most all new construction, "NO HOT WORK", tool box talks., All cotton outwear, Hard hat, safety glass, ALWAYS....
Through weekly safety meeting (all trades) the total Job is notified once the Switchboard goes hot and once the branch circuits go hot as well.

 

[zog]

I would like to hear of changes in your company "Policy" regarding the changes in the NFPA70E.
I have recently been "thrown" into this task. I realy didnt give it much thought before. But I have been given the task to update our policy dated 2002.
To be blatantly honest I dont know how you can follow NFPA70E to a tee.

Anyway any and all input would be most appreciated, good or bad.

Thanks in advance
Bryan

You will need to gove us more info than that. What type of company do you work for? What type of work is performed? There has been 2 major revisions since 2002 and we don't know what you have in the first place.

Step 1, read the 2009 70E, have you done that yet?
Have you done an arc flash study? What software?

Help us help you.

P.S. Following 70E to a tee is easy, many companies do. All depends on the type of work.

 

[Bryan Price]

Sorry, we are a full service medium sized Electrical Contractor. Engineering, Design build, Service, Preventative maintenance, And Hard bid. We have a safety staff, but they wanted this from an Electricians point of view.
I have now read through the 2009 NFPA70E and our [out dated] policy. The changes [in the nfpa]
Seem to be minimal really, but our policy is pretty out dated.
We have many people standing on each side of the fence. On one side the hard core [do it by the book], and on the other [how do we compete]. Hence why I said ?I?ve been thrown in?.

That?s when I thought of this forum, and if any other of you were or have been through these ?growing pains?

Thanks
Bryan

 

[zog]

Sorry, we are a full service medium sized Electrical Contractor. Engineering, Design build, Service, Preventative maintenance, And Hard bid. We have a safety staff, but they wanted this from an Electricians point of view.
I have now read through the 2009 NFPA70E and our [out dated] policy. The changes [in the nfpa]
Seem to be minimal really, but our policy is pretty out dated.
We have many people standing on each side of the fence. On one side the hard core [do it by the book], and on the other [how do we compete]. Hence why I said ?I?ve been thrown in?.

That?s when I thought of this forum, and if any other of you were or have been through these ?growing pains?

Thanks
Bryan

AS an EC your policy should be to always request a shutdown, if not possible you need to have the owner (Of the equipment) sign off on your energized work permits. Most of your customers will not have an up to date arc flash study and labels so in many cases you will need to follw the tables. Your staff needs to know how to determine available fault current and clearing times to determine if the tables can be used per the notes. There have been many changes to the task tables that your staff will need to be retrained on.


I have trained doxens of EC's across the country and they have some unique issues to deal with for 70E compliance. Each person needs to be qualified on task and equipment specific catagories, 95% of EC's out there are no where near being 70E compliant even though they think they are. More and more Industrial facilities are requiring proof of compliance before lettting you on site.

 

[Bryan Price]

......... 95% of EC's out there are no where near being 70E compliant even though they think they are. More and more Industrial facilities are requiring proof of compliance before lettting you on site.

This is one side of the fence here. Some here have the impression of "how do you compete with that". To the customer its all about the bottom dollar. As soon as we are more expensive that our compeditors, or the customer thinks we are a pain in the behind, they use somone else.
On the other side of the fence....of course is "if one man/woman doesnt go home..." and to me its the most important.

I was just testing the water to see if any of you were in this tug of war, and see if/how you are/were dealing with it.

 

[zog]

This is one side of the fence here. Some here have the impression of "how do you compete with that". To the customer its all about the bottom dollar. As soon as we are more expensive that our compeditors, or the customer thinks we are a pain in the behind, they use somone else. .

That is what everyone thinks will happen but it is generally not true. I have had feedback from most of the EC's I trained and that have become 70E compliant. They have generally found most customers to be receptive and have actually seen an increase in work. Some customers dont even realize what the requirements are, when you ask them to sign an EEWP they will usually "decide" they can shut it down after all and respect your company for being safe. Remmember, when you are on a customers property, they are responsible for your safety, and accident can cost them millions (Ask microsoft about that one) so you being safe is in thier best interest.

Now will a residential customer or a small commercial facility care, doubt it (Unlesss you are the guy that get the job to do my basement) but many industrial plants require it.

I have attached the form that many companies are requiring for EC's to come on site. This form is being distributed nationwide to facilities by OSHA reps, safety orgs, conferences, etc... If you have not seen one yet you will soon if you do industrial work.

 

[Bryan Price]

Thank you, zog
I appreciate your input. We have always had a ?no hot work? policy. But I am sure it has never been enforced. And I know that some are not going to like the new policy.
While I appreciate that my company has the confidence in me, and they say they want it from the view of an electrician. I do wonder why our ?safety team? hasn?t revised it, or enforced the one we have.
*Hmm maybe I should have picked a different screen name*
I am an Electrician/Superintendent/ Apprenticeship teacher. I guess I am about to add ?Policy writer?. I am hoping still that others may chime in and give some feed back to help me ?sell? this. Or some of the problems they have had??.
Thanks again I really do appreciate your input.
Sorry about the ?rant?
Bryan

 

[zog]

Thank you, zog
I appreciate your input. We have always had a ?no hot work? policy. But I am sure it has never been enforced. And I know that some are not going to like the new policy.
While I appreciate that my company has the confidence in me, and they say they want it from the view of an electrician. I do wonder why our ?safety team? hasn?t revised it, or enforced the one we have.
*Hmm maybe I should have picked a different screen name*
I am an Electrician/Superintendent/ Apprenticeship teacher. I guess I am about to add ?Policy writer?. I am hoping still that others may chime in and give some feed back to help me ?sell? this. Or some of the problems they have had??.
Thanks again I really do appreciate your input.
Sorry about the ?rant?
Bryan

Glad to help, to me it sounds like your so called "safety department" is having you do thier job. 70E compliance is more about laws, policies, work practices, conformance, and policies than anything to do with electrical. Sounds like they are passing the buck to you. Now asking some opinions of an experienced electrician on staff is a good idea for slarification of things but it is thier job to develop and revise the procedures.

Here is the fun part, you get to do it right, and they are the ones that have to make it happen so dont make any comprimises like it sounds they would or have already. Glas to help you any way I can.