Generator controls

Status
Not open for further replies.
K

KING

Member
Can the controls for a stand-by generator , like the battery charger wires and the wiring for the call to run be in the same conduit?
 
Welcome to the forum.:)

It really depends on if the control wires are class 2 or 3 circuits. Take a look at 300.3(C) and 725.136(A) for class 2 and 3 circuits.

Another question is this generator supplying emergency loads?

Chris
 
raider1 said:
welcome to the forum.:)

it really depends on if the control wires are class 2 or 3 circuits. Take a look at 300.3(c) and 725.136(a) for class 2 and 3 circuits.

Another question is this generator supplying emergency loads?

Chris
Click to expand...

the generator is feeding a motor control center for a lift station.
 
Some manufactures will not warrant the unit if say, you run the charger,or blockheater circuits in the same conduit as the start control, even though you use 600 volt wire for all conducters. I've been told by Kohler that they will not warrant it.
 
Generator Control Wiring

Generator Control Wiring

As a Kohler generator distributor we recommend that AC and DC/low voltage power be keep separate. We do not like to see any 120v (Battery charger or block heater wiring be included with the control (start) wires. The start wires can be included with low voltage DC battery charger wiring going to the battery. The issue is that with the modern electronic controls our service people have seen interference issues.
 
LarryFine said:
Generac seems to have no problem with running 240vac and 12vdc in the same raceway.
Click to expand...
I ran into this situation about a year ago. The Generac packaged units (the ones that are pre-engineered and come with their own xfer switch) come with a 30' whip in an armored jacket. Inside the jacket are the generator power wires (sized accordingly), a ground and 4# 16 control wires with a Molex connector on the generator end. I had to extend the generator circuit beyond 30' and was told by the local rep that I could not make up my own whip because if the control wiring wrapped itself around the generator power wires the induction produced by the power wires could damage the transfer switch. I didn't question why, I just ran the end of the whip into a 6 x 6 JB and extended the power & control circuits another 20' by using 6/3 MC and a run of 14/4 AC. Worked fine and never had any call backs.
 
hillbilly1 said:
Some manufactures will not warrant the unit if say, you run the charger,or blockheater circuits in the same conduit as the start control, even though you use 600 volt wire for all conducters. I've been told by Kohler that they will not warrant it.
Click to expand...

Show me some paper work!


We see it done all the time, personally I would not do it. But if the insulation class is rated for it there should be no issues.
 
brian john said:
Show me some paper work!


We see it done all the time, personally I would not do it. But if the insulation class is rated for it there should be no issues.
Click to expand...

I have not seen any paperwork stating this, but have had several startup techs with Kohler say they will not sign off if the control wiring is in the same conduit as the 120.
 
hillbilly1 said:
I have not seen any paperwork stating this, but have had several startup techs with Kohler say they will not sign off if the control wiring is in the same conduit as the 120.
Click to expand...

Check the paper work I have never seen this and have been on plenty of Kohler start ups.

Just like folks that make up code there are factory guys that make up rules.
 
Well heres why they dont like it and its not a common issue but can happen . Had a convention center with paralleled generators which were for multiple ATS switches the start wires were in with the control wiring and the ac battery circuits the ac wiring would actually start the generators by induction induced into the data wiring they dont like Ac with Dc .

But i dont see Dc and Dc data or signal to be a problem in the same raceway .
 
Last edited:
LarryFine said:
Generac seems to have no problem with running 240vac and 12vdc in the same raceway.
Click to expand...

I was just connecting an 80 KW Genrac on Wed and Thur.

JUNK absolute the worst piece of junk that I have had the displeasure of wiring.

Give me a CAT or a Volvo, or Onan / Cummings but the Generacs should be used for mooring anchors.
 
I have hooked up many Generac, and I have seen the ones that come with the prewired panel with the FMC have the DC control wires in it from the factory, but what confuses me, is when you have the stand alone whole house transfer switch the instructions in the installation book (yea I read it once) clearly states to run them in a separate wiring method, N1/192, N2/193 utility sense wires can be run in the same conduit as they are just the 240 volt taps to the utility side of the TS, but 15, 15A, 23, can't remember the other number, is the 12 volt DC control and has to be in another race way or cable as per instructions.

So I guess if they do it it's ok but if we do it it's not:mad:
 
iwire said:
I was just connecting an 80 KW Genrac on Wed and Thur.

JUNK absolute the worst piece of junk that I have had the displeasure of wiring.

Give me a CAT or a Volvo, or Onan / Cummings but the Generacs should be used for mooring anchors.
Click to expand...

Come on Bob, dont hold back. Let us know your real feelings:)
 
hurk27 said:
I have hooked up many Generac, and I have seen the ones that come with the prewired panel with the FMC have the DC control wires in it from the factory, but what confuses me, is when you have the stand alone whole house transfer switch the instructions in the installation book (yea I read it once) clearly states to run them in a separate wiring method, N1/192, N2/193 utility sense wires can be run in the same conduit as they are just the 240 volt taps to the utility side of the TS, but 15, 15A, 23, can't remember the other number, is the 12 volt DC control and has to be in another race way or cable as per instructions.

So I guess if they do it it's ok but if we do it it's not:mad:
Click to expand...

194 is the other control wire, although they have now changed it. 12+ and 23, I think.

It is amazing what UL listing can do for a manufacturer. :rolleyes:
 
iwire said:
I was just connecting an 80 KW Genrac on Wed and Thur.

JUNK absolute the worst piece of junk that I have had the displeasure of wiring.

Give me a CAT or a Volvo, or Onan / Cummings but the Generacs should be used for mooring anchors.
Click to expand...

The small homeowner Generac types are fantastic. 3 guys 3hrs completey wired and gas piped to it, So easy. Never installed a Generac of any substantial size just a CAT
 
Project Manager

Project Manager

Having been in the generator business for 27 years I have seen instances where AC and DC wiring has been applied in the same conduit. The issue with this is "induced" voltage on the DC control circuits as well as. Short parallel runs of AC and DC may not experience an induction of AC voltage on the DC circuits, but extended runs can have detrimental affects on the DC controls. Also per code the equipment must be installed per the manufacturers recommendations--so if Generac says it's ok--it's ok, if Kohler says don't--then don't. Frankly I always recommend to run the DC controls in a seperate conduit regardless of what the Mfg says---small cost in comparison to time spent figuring out an issue if there is one.

Another option if there is no way around it would be to run the DC control circuits in a teisted shielded pair with the drain grounded on one end.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top