You have to love inspectors.....

[c2500]

I am in Greenville, SC. The city of Greenville as well as the county, require smoke detectors in bedrooms to be on an arcfault circuit. I have a friend building some apartments in the next county, Anderson. He was informed today that the smoke detectors are not to be on an arcfault circuit due to the sensitive nature of arcfaults with regard to tripping. The inspectors also had not seen the 3M "yellow" 2 hour rated fire caulk.

To think, the state of South Carolina is under the 2006 International Residential Code and the 2005 NEC (residential installs).

Kinda defeats the purpose have having a unified code.

c2500

 

[zog]

He was informed today that the smoke detectors are not to be on an arcfault circuit due to the sensitive nature of arcfaults with regard to tripping.

c2500

Makes sense to me, the whole purpose of an AFCiIis for fire prevention, if an arcing fault were to occur, and ignited something (Dust bunnies, curtians, etc) before the AFCI tripped, having the smokes lose power would be bad.

 

[augie47]

"You have to love inspectors..... "
we often feel the love :grin: and see it expressed..................

 

[Rewire]

Makes sense to me, the whole purpose of an AFCiIis for fire prevention, if an arcing fault were to occur, and ignited something (Dust bunnies, curtians, etc) before the AFCI tripped, having the smokes lose power would be bad.

All our smokes are battery back up so power lose is not an issue,the 2005 NEC requires them to be on the AFCI breaker.

 

[iwire]

Makes sense to me, the whole purpose of an AFCiIis for fire prevention, if an arcing fault were to occur, and ignited something (Dust bunnies, curtians, etc) before the AFCI tripped, having the smokes lose power would be bad.

Smokes have batteries, but I think the point is it should be one code not a 'make it up as we go' code.

 

[zog]

Sure, everyone changes thier smoke detector batteries.

 

[LarryFine]

Sure, everyone changes thier smoke detector batteries.

So, work to eliminate the requirement for them.

 

[Rewire]

Sure, everyone changes thier smoke detector batteries.

The ones we install do not need to have the battery changed.

 

[brian john]

And in defense of inspectors many sit and shake their heads and say "You'll never believe what I saw today"

 

[iwire]

Sure, everyone changes thier smoke detector batteries.

I would call that the occupants problem then.

People need to take at least a little personal responsibility for their own safety don't ya think?

But again, if SC does not want smokes AFCI protected they should amend the code and if they do not amend the code no inspector should be doing it for them ............ consistency is all I am asking for.

 

[c2500]

And in defense of inspectors many sit and shake their heads and say "You'll never believe what I saw today"

I agree...and I very much respect and value the knowledge of the ones I deal with. I am just commenting on the difference 10 miles can make.

c2500

 

[Sierrasparky]

I would call that the occupants problem then.

People need to take at least a little personal responsibility for their own safety don't ya think?

But again, if SC does not want smokes AFCI protected they should amend the code and if they do not amend the code no inspector should be doing it for them ............ consistency is all I am asking for.

Here Here! I second that.
And as far as smoke detectors on AFCI circuits goes , the smokes have batteries. The smokes will chip if the battery is going dead( or should the ones I sell do) So in this the case the inspector is citing is wrong. I personally don't put a smoke on it's own circuit so I never am faces with a AFCI soley for the smokes. I do this so that an owner cannot disable the smoke circuit and forget it's off. I make sure at least one light that is used frequently is on that circuit.

 

[cowboyjwc]

"You have to love inspectors..... "
we often feel the love :grin: and see it expressed..................

We do, don't we augie? People are always telling me where to go and what to do when I get there and they're always suggesting where I can put things. You just gotta feel the love.

 

[scwirenut]

the 2006 IRC referencing the 2005 NEC does not take preference over the NEC 2008. state law says you must install based on 08 for permits after july 1st, here is an email from the Building Codes Council:

The IRC is the dominant document used for construction of one and two family dwellings in South Carolina. If a specific electrical issue is not addressed in the IRC, the default is to the NEC. The 2006 edition of the IRC is presently in use. It references the 2005 NEC as the default edition. The Building Codes Council, however, adopted the 2008 edition of the NEC and established July 1, 2009 as the date for mandatory implementation and use by local jurisdictions.

"Staff?s opinion is; when a conflict between the referenced edition and adopted edition occurs, the adopted edition (in this case 2008 NEC) prevails. That opinion is not shared by all members of the BCC. The question, therefore, is scheduled to go to the BCC for clarification at its next meeting (August 26, 2009). Although Mr. Minick is knowledgeable in the technical provisions of the NEC, his opinion concerning administrative or legal issues will not have an impact in SC.

Your responsibility as licensed electrician is to perform your tasks in compliance with the edition of the NEC that is adopted by the BCC. If a building code enforcement officer does not enforce the editions of the codes adopted by the BCC, that individual may, upon complaint, be sanctioned up to and including revocation of registration for a charge of negligence."
Gary Wiggins

 

[ike5547]

The ones we install do not need to have the battery changed.

Lithium batteries?

http://www.consumersearch.com/smoke-detectors/first-alert-sa340cn

 

[ivsenroute]

South Carolina created their own little mess by having the 2006 I codes in place which reference the 2005NEC while adopting the 2008 NEC. That they should never have done until they adopted the 2009 I codes. In the case of the IRC 2006, most of the electrical code is in the electrical section of that book and you don't have to open the NEC to get your answer. This creates the confusion that you are referring to.

In the IRC 2006 and the 2005 NEC, smokes must be on an AFCI protected circuit in bedrooms. Since they are to be battery backup and they chirp when the battery goes bad, it would take a lot for them to not function.

I personally do not agree with having them on an AFCI circuit but since in PA we are under the IRC 2006, I don't have a choice but to enforce it that way, not the way I want to or agree with. I approve a lot of things that I don't like but are code compliant.

 

[growler]

I am in Greenville, SC. The city of Greenville as well as the county, require smoke detectors in bedrooms to be on an arcfault circuit. I have a friend building some apartments in the next county, Anderson. He was informed today that the smoke detectors are not to be on an arcfault circuit due to the sensitive nature of arcfaults with regard to tripping.

Is the county of Anderson forcing electricians to put the smokes on a circuit that is not arc fault protected or are they allowing the smokes on a circuit that's not arc fault protected?

It would be hard to enforce a requirement without a code amendment but it would be easy for them to simply allow the smokes on a non protected circuit.

It would really be hard for them to fail you on an inspection, you know with you standing there with your code book in hand at the time.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I don't know about other states, but even an amendment may not be allowed. Here in CA you can use amendments to make the code more restrictive, but you can't make it less restrictive.

 

[growler]

I don't know about other states, but even an amendment may not be allowed. Here in CA you can use amendments to make the code more restrictive, but you can't make it less restrictive.

Here I think that any amendment needs to be more restrictive and there needs to be a cause for the amendment that will cause the DCA to approve said amendment at the state level. Even local authorities have someone they have to answer to.

When a county wants an amendement approved by the DCA they really have to prove that there is a good reason. It would really be hard to prove that smoke detectors and arc fault circuits work differently in your county than in other counties.

 

[mlnk]

Local AHJ has the right to change the Code. Some AHJs allow only conduit-no NM. Petaluma says no AFCI on smoke detectors or paddle fans. Good idea.