Wet Bar

[ABLE]

I have a 6' long wet bar does the spacing of the counter require counter spacing and (2) small appliance circuits the inspector says that it does?:-? It is in a basement and has (2) GFI outlets above it he is asking for (1) more outlet and to meet the 24" spacing and the 20 amp circuit.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

The only way your 6' island would require all that would be if it's the ONLY CONTERSPACE in the whole kitchen. He's asking you to put a kitchen's worth of circuits in one island,,,,,,,your island only requires ONE receptacle,,,,if you have already met your (2) small app. brance circuits on other counterspace,,,,if you haven't,,,,he's right,,,if you have,,install ONE per 210.52 (c) 2

 

[infinity]

If it is considered a similar area of a dwelling unit than he's correct. Take a look at 210.52(C).

 

[infinity]

The only way your 6' island would require all that would be if it's the ONLY CONTERSPACE in the whole kitchen. He's asking you to put a kitchen's worth of circuits in one island,,,,,,,your island only requires ONE receptacle,,,,if you have already met your (2) small app. brance circuits on other counterspace,,,,if you haven't,,,,he's right,,,if you have,,install ONE per 210.52 (c) 2

He said that this is a wet bar in a basement not a kitchen.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

I read you original post wrong,,,,,you DO have to meet countertop spacing for this wet bar,,,,,,but not 2 circuits,,,,,,,he's wrong there,,but countertop spacing would apply IMO,,,also, I called it an island and it would be just be considered a wet bar or peninsula

 

[ABLE]

He passed the rough in inspection with no 12 guage wire in place and outlets in there present position. I did read 210-52 C and it refers to kitchens and dining room this is neither? Help Where did you see similar rooms. Would a wet bar with an outlet be similar? When ther are no other appliances.

 

[PetrosA]

Does the 6' include the sink? If so, wouldn't that area be exempt from having an outlet? Even if the sink were only 8" wide, that still three recepts in a 5 foot space... How many blenders can the average HO use at once?

 

[radiopet]

If it is considered a similar area of a dwelling unit than he's correct. Take a look at 210.52(C).

So, would you consider this a "similar area" ?

 

[Doug S.]

I did read 210-52 C and it refers to kitchens and dining room this is neither?

I probably agree, but if it has most of the amenities of a kitchen the inspector could be seeing it as one.

Help Where did you see similar rooms. Would a wet bar with an outlet be similar? When ther are no other appliances.

I believe Infinity was referring to 210.52(B)(1) ( I'm using the '05 book ) which refers back ahead to section C.


Regards,
Doug S.

 

[ABLE]

Has no ammenities of a kitchen.

 

[gotmud]

You would not be required to run 2 circuits....It does not have cooking appliances so it is not considered a kitchen. One circuit and a couple of outlets is all I would put there..If a micro was set there that does not count as a permanent cooking appliance. You could actually get by with 1 outlet on counter and a circuit in my area.....

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

If this is truly a wet bar, and the countertop is 6ft long, there is no requirement for receptacles (of course depending on the setup of the wall receptacles). There is also no need for a separate circuit, whether it be a 15 or 20-ampere circuit, if one should choose to install a receptacle(s).

 

[infinity]

So, would you consider this a "similar area" ?

Good question. I really don't know what a similar area actually is when referencing 210.52(C).

 

[Buck Parrish]

As gotmud said. To be a kitchen it has to have a sink and permanent cooking appliance's. If a microwave is fastened in place. Then it is a kitchen. Since you said no appliances. What you have is a wet bar. No outlets required.

 

[infinity]

As gotmud said. To be a kitchen it has to have a sink and permanent cooking appliance's. If a microwave is fastened in place. Then it is a kitchen. Since you said no appliances. What you have is a wet bar. No outlets required.

Where are you seeing the requirement for 210.52(C) that only applies to kitchens?

 

[Doug S.]

Where are you seeing the requirement for 210.52(C) that only applies to kitchens?

2005 NEC 210.52(C) "In kitchens and dining rooms of dwelling units... ..."

I think it's that part.

Doug S.

 

[infinity]

Where are you seeing the requirement for 210.52(C) that only applies to kitchens?

2005 NEC 210.52(C) "In kitchens and dining rooms of dwelling units... ..."

I think it's that part.

Doug S.

Your quote is from the 2005 NEC, the 2008 is a bit different:

210.52(C) Countertops. In kitchens, pantries, breakfast rooms, dining rooms, and similar areas of dwelling units, receptacle outlets for countertop spaces shall be installed in accordance with 210.52(C)(1) through (C)(5).
Where a range, counter-mounted cooking unit, or sink is installed in an island or peninsular countertop and the width of the countertop behind the range, counter-mounted cooking unit, or sink is less than 300 mm (12 in.), the range, counter-mounted cooking unit, or sink is considered to divide the countertop space into two separate countertop spaces as defined in 210.52(C)(4). Each separate countertop space shall comply with the applicable requirements in 210.52(C).

IMO you need to define what a similar area is to say whether or not this applies to a wet bar in a basement.

 

[hillbilly1]

I have a 6' long wet bar does the spacing of the counter require counter spacing and (2) small appliance circuits the inspector says that it does?:-? It is in a basement and has (2) GFI outlets above it he is asking for (1) more outlet and to meet the 24" spacing and the 20 amp circuit.

If it is required, and you already have two receptacles above it, why is the inspector requiring a third receptacle? Unless your spacing is exceding 4' BETWEEN the receptacles, the two should be sufficent for a six foot bar.

 

[ABLE]

Thanks

Thanks

I wanted to thank everyone for the feedback. I guess I will just go ahead and do what the inspector is asking us to do but was curious how other people would treat this.

Thanks for all the input I still don't know if I know the definitive answer to this one since it seems to be ambiguous.

 

[radiopet]

Your quote is from the 2005 NEC, the 2008 is a bit different:



IMO you need to define what a similar area is to say whether or not this applies to a wet bar in a basement.

I agree it is a bit different. However, the intent to me ( my opinion ) is that those areas are specific to areas similar to kitchens and associated areas like that. A wetbar in a basement to me is not a similar area regardless of how they want to word it. As the "compliance" arm of my local jurisdiction we would not render a wetbar in a basement a similar area.

If we go through the entire code and make them be "DIRECT" on every statement they make the book would be 6" thick......ya think...