Something I saw a few weeks ago

[petersonra]

I wish I had taken a picture.

A church was putting in a sign. They stuck what looked like two 4" pipes into the ground into some concrete pylons set about 10 or 12 feet apart, then welded another pipe between the two legs about 2 or 3 feet underground.

Duct taped to one of the legs was a ground rod.

Wouldn't the steel pipe be a GE in this case? It would seem to fit several possible criteria

 

[chris kennedy]

A church was putting in a sign. They stuck what looked like two 4" pipes into the ground into some concrete pylons set about 10 or 12 feet apart,

Are they 8' deep?

then welded another pipe between the two legs about 2 or 3 feet underground.

2' no good, 3' OK.

Duct taped to one of the legs was a ground rod.

Yeah, I also wish you had taken a picture.

 

[Smart $]

Wouldn't the steel pipe be a GE in this case?

No... at least one end of it has to be 8' underground except where subterranean rock is encountered. Refer to 250.53(G).

 

[Smart $]

... 3' OK.

.......???

 

[chris kennedy]

.......???

Right you are sir, I figured if 10'-12' was buried 3' deep horizontally it would be compliant. Your are correct, rock must be encountered.

 

[petersonra]

No... at least one end of it has to be 8' underground except where subterranean rock is encountered. Refer to 250.53(G).

It would appear to me to be a GE because it is structural and effectively earthed. 250.50(2).

Might also qualify under 250.50(7).

 

[al hildenbrand]

It would appear to me to be a GE because it is structural and effectively earthed. 250.50(2).

Might also qualify under 250.50(7).

Is that 250.52(A)(2) & 250.52(A)(7)?

 

[petersonra]

Is that 250.52(A)(2) & 250.52(A)(7)?

I mentioned to not only quote the wrong paragraph, but got the subsection wrong. Thanks for the fix.

 

[Smart $]

It would appear to me to be a GE because it is structural and effectively earthed. 250.50(2).

Might also qualify under 250.50(7).

Is that 250.52(A)(2) & 250.52(A)(7)?

I mentioned to not only quote the wrong paragraph, but got the subsection wrong. Thanks for the fix.

I'd say yes to 250.52(A)(2)(1).

Qualifying under 250.52(A)(7) is quite iffy IMO, since the pipe is technically not a plate.

 

[iwire]

Duct taped to one of the legs was a ground rod.

Rods are required to be 'driven' sounds like even the ground rod is not a grounding electrode.

 

[petersonra]

Rods are required to be 'driven' sounds like even the ground rod is not a grounding electrode.

It wasn't driven when I saw it. Don't know what they did afterward.

 

[petersonra]

I'd say yes to 250.52(A)(2)(1).

Qualifying under 250.52(A)(7) is quite iffy IMO, since the pipe is technically not a plate.

(6) is plate electrodes. (7) is other underground stuff, unless they redid it for 2008. I still use 2005. I probably should break down and go with 2008.

(7) Other Local Metal Underground Systems or Structures.
Other local metal underground systems or structures
such as piping systems, underground tanks, and underground
metal well casings that are not effectively bonded to
a metal water pipe.

 

[Smart $]

(6) is plate electrodes. (7) is other underground stuff, unless they redid it for 2008. I still use 2005. I probably should break down and go with 2008.

Yes it changed in 2008. They inserted a new (6)... Other Listed Electrodes. So (6) and (7) in 2005 are (7) and (8) respectively in 2008.

As for the (7) in 2005, I suppose it qualifies as a structure, but the requirement is subject to interpretation when the situation is something other than the examples given, as in this case... but (A)(2)(1) covers this installation as described, while methods 2, 3, and 4 cover other installation types regarding structures. So I suppose structures is mentioned in the "other" category for underground metal that is not part of the structure's framework.

 

[donselectric]

i would have had the ec just cad weld to the frame, better than that useless
rod..

 

[M. D.]

Rods are required to be 'driven' sounds like even the ground rod is not a grounding electrode.

well,..... how do you think it got there?,.. by foot?:grin:

 

[iwire]

well,..... how do you think it got there?,.. by foot?:grin:

:grin::grin: