GFCI with no grounding conductor

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madpenguin

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I'm sorry guys but can someone give an Article number that deals with this. Had to do this on 2 branch circuits for a home inspection pending sale type of deal. Had no ground wires and I wasn't about to spend forever running a grounding conductor to all these receptacles so I punched in a GFCI upstream and marked all receptacles with "no equipment ground".

I'd like the art # because I can almost guarantee the home inspector is still going to say the receptacles need to be grounded. That and I'd like to bookmark it for myself in my NEC. Thanks!
 
iwire

iwire

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madpenguin said:
I can almost guarantee the home inspector is still going to say the receptacles need to be grounded.
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They can say that, they are not code inspectors, it will be up to the seller to decide if they want to meet all the HIs recommendations.

Again .......... it has nothing to do with the NEC.
 
ivsenroute

ivsenroute

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Location
Florida
iwire said:
They can say that, they are not code inspectors, it will be up to the seller to decide if they want to meet all the HIs recommendations.

Again .......... it has nothing to do with the NEC.
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If he/she is a smart home inspector they will not reinspect your work and will tellthe buyer's to get a copy of your professional paperwork stating that the work was performed and the work that was performed meets the current electrical code. This leaves the liability monkey on your back, not his/hers.
 
roger

roger

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ivsenroute said:
If he/she is a smart home inspector they will not reinspect your work and will tellthe buyer's to get a copy of your professional paperwork stating that the work was performed and the work that was performed meets the current electrical code. This leaves the liability monkey on your back, not his/hers.
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A HI can not inspect a licensed electricians work in the first place.

A HI's comments are just that, comments.



Roger
 
ivsenroute

ivsenroute

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A home inspector's inspection report is simply for the buyer to make a decision on purchasing or not. The report itself is a legal document used in the real estate transaction but it does not carry the weight of an AHJ inspection as far as the homeowner and/or contractor is concerned.

It is nonetheless, an important inspection as the buyer may decide not to purchas the home as a result of the home inspection.

When buyers ask home inspectors to re-inspect work, the HI should decline and direct the buyer towards the seller and the seller's contractor who did the work. At this point, the work being performed may be under the jurisdiction of the AHJ and the results are above the HI's legal obligation.

HI's are a great source of work for electricians and generate millions of dollars to the industry from the defects that they find.
 
ivsenroute

ivsenroute

Senior Member
Location
Florida
iwire said:
I sure agree with that, they are not legally binding.
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They are legally binding for the real estate transaction as they are part of the contract between the seller and buyer. The results of the inspection may determine whether or not the sale goes to closing. Buyers use HI reports to get out of a legally binding sales contract every single day.

The HI has no jurisdiction on how the work gets performed once a permit is pulled as the AHJ takes over at that point.
 
growler

growler

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Atlanta,GA
roger said:
A HI can not inspect a licensed electricians work in the first place.
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Well he can't do a code inspection but he is still allowed to give his opinion on the value of the repair work.

Having older ungrounded wire in the house even though it's a legal repair may still be cause for the inspector to list it as an item of concern. Obviously it's not as good as having new cable and may cause other future problems.

I wouldn't pay as much for a house where the circuits needed GFCI protection as I would for a house with new grounded wiring. The value just isn't there because it will be questioned in the future when you go to sell the house.

I'm not saying that it's not a safe and legal repair but it will still give a future home buyer cause to think about it. Why does this house need GFCI protection when my last house didn't?
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

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Location
Illinois
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retired electrician
madpenguin said:
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I'd like the art # because I can almost guarantee the home inspector is still going to say the receptacles need to be grounded. That and I'd like to bookmark it for myself in my NEC. Thanks!
Click to expand...
And he may be correct depending on what the non-grounded GFCI receptacles will be used for. See 250.114.
 
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ozark01

Senior Member
If the house was built before grounded receptacles were required then grounding them would be an improvement and not a repair item.

(Boring history -I'm semi-retired and now do HI's in NC. I am also a licensed electrician, plumber , and HVAC contractor.)

In NC a HI report has two sections. They are the body of the report where the inspector can write about any thing they think is important and the summary where only repair items can be listed.

A three wire receptacle on an ungrounded system is a repair item but the repair does not consist of grounding the receptacle unless the seller agrees to do so. All that is needed to be correct is make the receptacle meet the code under which the house was built. This means that changing the three wire receptacle to a two wire receptacle.

This is my opinion and yours may vary and I have no problem with that. The main thing a HI has to do is be able a support their opinions.
 
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