Is a firestation considered a dwelling unit?

[wbalsam1]

I think what New York State's Department of State, Codes Division offered back in January of '07 may shed some insight for this conversation.
Follow to this link: http://www.dos.state.ny.us/code/pdf/TBfirestations07.pdf

 

[iwire]

I think what New York State's Department of State, Codes Division offered back in January of '07 may shed some insight for this conversation.

I don't think it sheds a bit of light for 49 of the 50 states.


That is also more about building codes and not the NEC, I believe we are talking about the NEC definition of dwelling unit.

 

[wbalsam1]

I don't think it sheds a bit of light for 49 of the 50 states.


That is also more about building codes and not the NEC, I believe we are talking about the NEC definition of dwelling unit.

In my opinion, Raider, the Moderator, nailed it on post # 5 and my link to the Technical Bulletin echos his view quite well. "Dwelling Unit" is discussed in post #5 and in the TB.

 

[iwire]

In my opinion, Raider, the Moderator, nailed it on post # 5 and my link to the Technical Bulletin echos his view quite well. "Dwelling Unit" is discussed in post #5 and in the TB.

OK, first off let me say I am just having fun here, I am not cranked up and I have already conceded it would be an AHJ call.

That said, it should come as no surprise I am fairly narrow minded at times, :grin: here is the OPs question.

I'm currently trying to do a load calculation for a fire station. The station has an existing 150A 3phase 208 service. The station has 6 bedrooms, 1 office/command center, a kitchen, a laundry room, a mechanical room, storage, an ambulance bay, and two fire truck bays.

The 2008 N.E.C. defines a "Dwelling Unit" as a single unit, providing complete and independent living facilities for one or more persons, including permanent provisions for living, sleeping, cooking, and sanitation.

Can I use the "Dwelling unit" calculations for demand factors on appliances, dryers, ranges, receptacles, etc?

He did not ask if it is "B", "R2" or an "S2" occupancy, IMO those are building code designations and have absolutely nothing to do with the OPs question or how to apply the load calculations contained in Article 220.


So lets bring this back to the question at hand.

Can they use the "Dwelling unit" calculations for demand factors on appliances, dryers, ranges, receptacles, etc?

 

[steve66]

He did not ask if it is "B", "R2" or an "S2" occupancy, IMO those are building code designations and have absolutely nothing to do with the OPs question or how to apply the load calculations contained in Article 220.

I think you are 100% correct. I don't know why it couldn't be a dwelling unit per the NEC, and a business occupancy per the IBC or whatever building code is in effect.

Steve

 

[steve66]

I will go along with the idea that this is most similar to a guest room or a guest suite. I think this is a subject in the NEC that could stand for an upgrade, IMO.

The problem I see with applying "dwelling unit" is when we try to apply the definition:


It's hard to say without seeing the prints, of course, but I imagine a scenario where it is exceedingly hard to draw a box or a circle around a toilet, a range, and a bed dedicated to a particular unit, surrounded by walls.

The opposing view can then call it a "one family dwelling" so that the circle or box gets bigger; but it just doesn't feel right to me.

Guest room or suite seems to work better in my head.

But I think it exposes a problem with the wording: Why can't I call a duplex a "one family dwelling"? Why can't I call an eight-plex a "one family dwelling"?

George:

I don't think every dwelling unit has to be either a one-family, two family, or multifamily.

Just because they didn't put "Dwelling- other" in the definitions doesn't mean you can't have other types.

 

[George Stolz]

Steve, feel free to elaborate, I don't get what you're saying.

 

[steve66]

Steve, feel free to elaborate, I don't get what you're saying.

Maybe I'm misunderstood your last post, but it looks like you are saying that a fire dept. doesn't really fit into a one-family dwelling, a two family dwelling, or a multifamily dwelling. Therefore, it must not be a dwelling.

I don't think all dwelling units have to fit one of those specific types. I think we could pencil the following definition into our code book:

"Dwelling unit - other: A dwelling unit that is not a single family unit, nor a two family unit, nor a multifamily unit."

You might ask why the NEC didn't put that definition in the code if they intended there to be "dwelling-other" units. I think the answer is that they just didn't think it was necessary.

Steve

 

[George Stolz]

"Dwelling unit - other: A dwelling unit that is not a single family unit, nor a two family unit, nor a multifamily unit."

That would be just about everything else, wouldn't it?

What I mean is, the layout of the area of the building that we would call "possibly dwelling unit" probably doesn't conform to the definition, so it would be easier to call it a "guest room."

But I think Bob's right ([FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

)[/FONT], the best bet is a call to the AHJ, there's no right answer.

 

[ItsHot]

dwelling

dwelling

dwelling.. a shelter in which people live. The fireman live there for 24 hours.:roll:

 

[benaround]

IMO, The important part of the definition is, Dwelling Unit. A SINGLE UNIT, if you have to

walk down public hallways to get to the kitchen, you are not in a single unit, providing

COMPLETE and INDEPENDENT facilities for one or more persons.

So I will ask, In a firestation do you have single units complete and independent for,

1. living
2. sleeping
3. cooking
4. sanitation

 

[mivey]

OK, first off let me say I am just having fun here, I am not cranked up and I have already conceded it would be an AHJ call

Yeah, I'm just slinging opinions out there and seeing what sticks to the wall. :grin: I really haven't thought about it much before now.

dwelling.. a shelter in which people live. The fireman live there for 24 hours.:roll:

And depending on your situation:
motel room, bar, office, concert line, driver's license renewal line, 20 items or less checkout line at Wal-Mart, doghouse...

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Can I use the "Dwelling unit" calculations for demand factors on appliances, dryers, ranges, receptacles, etc?


Thanks for your input in advance

As has been mentioned, the AHJ/building official will most likely be the person to determine the answer to this question.

Stete
I am curious what you have done about the calculation?