Is an arc-fault upgrade required in this scenario?

[jaylectricity]

A customer has a 100 Amp service, with a 200 amp main lug panel, using a 100 amp two pole breaker as the service disconnect. If I upgrade the feeder and replace the main breaker with a two pole 125 amp breaker, do I then have to change the living area breakers over to arc-fault breakers? Or can they stay the same since I am only replacing the feeder and main breaker?

 

[Buck Parrish]

No AFCI's required IMHO.

 

[SEO]

I agree with Buck.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

In VA, you could do this without touching branch circuits. or adding AFCI's, But I'm curious why not 200?, the oddball sizes usually cost more, so you don't alway save by going up to 125 or 150.

 

[cpal]

is some ahj requesting comb AFCI???

 

[jaylectricity]

In VA, you could do this without touching branch circuits. or adding AFCI's, But I'm curious why not 200?, the oddball sizes usually cost more, so you don't alway save by going up to 125 or 150.

They didn't want to upgrade at all, but they have an electric kitchen, built-in microwave and a new A/C unit. Not sure they need to upgrade at all, we're just looking to give him a buffer. He didn't like my price for a 200 amp upgrade. Not that he didn't like it, just that he couldn't afford it. This cuts out the cost of replacing the panel. I just need to replace the meter socket, the riser, the feeder, the main breaker and the water ground. I can drop his price down to about $1300 while doing that.

 

[jaylectricity]

is some ahj requesting comb AFCI???

No, I'm just making sure I don't quote this guy a price and then end up having to buy 5-6 arc-fault breakers out of my money. I need to give the guy a pretty firm price. The building department is closed right now or I'd call them.

I was hoping to email him with a price tonight so we can get things moving while I have the time to get all of his work done.

 

[SEO]

I hope if an AHJ requires an arc-fault it is a combo type.

 

[jaylectricity]

I hope if an AHJ requires an arc-fault it is a combo type.

That's the only kind we install around here.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

They didn't want to upgrade at all, but they have an electric kitchen, built-in microwave and a new A/C unit. Not sure they need to upgrade at all, we're just looking to give him a buffer. He didn't like my price for a 200 amp upgrade. Not that he didn't like it, just that he couldn't afford it. This cuts out the cost of replacing the panel. I just need to replace the meter socket, the riser, the feeder, the main breaker and the water ground. I can drop his price down to about $1300 while doing that.

I see, that makes sense. You might get away with not changing the riser if the calculatede load still falls under 100

 

[Chamuit]

Depends on the AHJ here and their interpretation of the extent of the "upgrade."

In Scottsdale, on a service upgrade, you have to install AFCI's. In the other municipalities, they don't. Would pay to make a discreet call.

 

[Buck Parrish]

No, I'm just making sure I don't quote this guy a price and then end up having to buy 5-6 arc-fault breakers out of my money. I need to give the guy a pretty firm price. The building department is closed right now or I'd call them.

I was hoping to email him with a price tonight so we can get things moving while I have the time to get all of his work done.

Go on and email him. Belive me you don't need to upgrade to AFCI's.

 

[jaylectricity]

I see, that makes sense. You might get away with not changing the riser if the calculatede load still falls under 100

Hey now, let's not negate the need for ALL of my work here.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

understood,,,,

 

[Power Tech]

No. Here 2/3 of the residence has to be upgraded.

 

[growler]

They didn't want to upgrade at all, but they have an electric kitchen, built-in microwave and a new A/C unit. Not sure they need to upgrade at all, we're just looking to give him a buffer.

Why not do a load calculation and see if an upgrade is needed in the first place? What if they really need a 150 amp service then upgrading to 125 is just a waste of money and if they don't need an upgrade at all then you are not being honest with the customer.

By the way I hate it when people give me a buffer I normally think of it as the shaft.

 

[Cavie]

NO AFCI's required. What if the house has 3 or 4 multi wire branch ckts?? they gonna make you rewire the whole house. Not my house you wouldn't.