Can I add a 5th meter to this stack?

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jjhoward

jjhoward

Senior Member
Location
Northern NJ
Occupation
Owner TJ Electric
Residential meter stack.
Single phase, 3 wire, 120/240V.
HO would like to have an owner's meter added.

Can I tap into the feed in this assembly and mount a 5th meter next to this stack?

Thank you.
 
What are you trying to meter? The total of all the meters? And is it for the PCO to read or just for information?
 
I would think not... You could IMO put a gutter over the top and tap to both inside that. But you should check with your POCO... You might be able to put a set of polaris in the terminal section - but you need to check with the AHJ.

BTW - those are some weird looking meters - they look like K&T meters - just mounted on the ring???? (Conductors and terminals for each dangling below...) One seems to be sealed with foil tape????
 
jjhoward said:
Residential meter stack.
Single phase, 3 wire, 120/240V.
HO would like to have an owner's meter added.

Can I tap into the feed in this assembly and mount a 5th meter next to this stack?

Thank you.
Click to expand...
Are those 120v a base meters ?
Otherwise what are those wires hanging out of the meters.
 
JJ, your best bet may be to add a set of lugs to the terminals inside the connection box, meaning that the POCO will have to be involved to deenergize, and add a 100a meter base to the left.
 
Unsure what you mean by "tapping the feed". To alter the assembly would be a violation. You might be able to get an additional meter assembly from the mfg., but that would be costly. It looks like an O.H. feed. Why not install another riser to the service drop and add the meter/disconnect adjacent to this one. That would also remove any concern about additional load on what looks like it might be limited service conductors.
 
Check with the AHJ to check what?

Is it a violation to tap the main feed in that large cabinet area to the left of the meters?

There are 3 4/0 lines providing the power to this meter stack (2 hots and 1 return).

Yes, these are 120V meters that the POCO has kept in service afte the service to the house was changed to 240V. The exposed wires and the foil tape are all handy work of the POCO.
 
Hi Gus;

Add a second piece of conduit up the side of the house?

I have not seen that before.

I guess my question really is: Is it a violation to splice into the service feed in that meter stack for a 5th meter? Of course there are KOs on the bottom and top of that cabinet.
 
It is not a violation to splice into the SE conductors ahead of the equipment, as long as your location of tapping is compliant.
As Gus mentioned, altering the equipment by adding lugs may not be acceptable. I always ask the contractor to contact the manufacturer to get a letter stating adding lugs is acceptable, and where those lugs can be located. I will say for guidance only, that in the last few years it is very difficult to obtain the letter from manufacturers for tapping some equipment. So it does pay to contact them.

As per the NEC, one is permitted to have six sets of service entrance conductors per service...just check with the POCO, as some do not allow six sets.
 
I've never seen a retrofit to a A base meter like that before. why not just use a regular meter and just use only one phase. What a mess they did and exposed wires
what a hack.
 
jjhoward said:
Hi Gus;

Add a second piece of conduit up the side of the house?

I have not seen that before.

I guess my question really is: Is it a violation to splice into the service feed in that meter stack for a 5th meter? Of course there are KOs on the bottom and top of that cabinet.
Click to expand...


KO on top?? wrong
 
jjhoward said:
Yes, these are 120V meters that the POCO has kept in service afte the service to the house was changed to 240V. The exposed wires and the foil tape are all handy work of the POCO.
Click to expand...
Joe,

That is one of the strangest installs that I've ever seen a POCO meter department do.

Do you know how the exposed conductors of the Surface Mount 120 V meters terminate to the ringless socket buss?

From what I can see, there appears to be a blank insert closing the ringless opening, and each surface mount 120 V meter is pinching the conductors against the ringless meter cover. Is there some little end fitting that terminates the conductors to the meter base jaws? Is this some special accessory "gofrom" that the POCO is using? Or is it really as bad as it looks?

----- And as for your original question, . . . although the NEC allows the installation of a fifth meter, I wouldn't risk the meter stack main tapping turning into a time sucker, rather just run another mast up. (I'm guessing that this is a simple pipe up the exterior to a Point-Of-Attachment on the siding, not a roof penetrating mast).
 
Those meter adapters are common around here when upgrading a service from 120 to 120/240 or upgrading an old 30 or 60 amp 120/240 service that had a 4 wire non-jawed meter. The old meters, #'s 1,3, and 4 in the photo, do not push into a jaw like modern meters, they have lugs where the service entrance conductors connected directly the meter base. During a service upgrade you would typically put the old meter back in the new meter socket. This is impossible with an old style meter since it lacks the jaws of modern meters, hence the adapters you see. The adapter plugs into the meter socket and the two or four conductors terminate in the old meter.
 
jjhoward said:
Check with the AHJ to check what?

Is it a violation to tap the main feed in that large cabinet area to the left of the meters?

There are 3 4/0 lines providing the power to this meter stack (2 hots and 1 return).

.
Click to expand...


As Pierre pointed out, it is not a direct violation to tap the service conductors, the question is "how". You technically can't alter the manufactured UL equipment by adding lugs, etc. (Done every day--but not legal)
If you wish to go that route, I'd address it with your AHJ.
My opinion, sight unseen, was that adding a riser might be simpler.
 
Morning all;
Thank you for the input.
I will check wtih the POCO about a 2nd riser. That is probably the simpliest solution.

Yes, sorry , there are NO KOs on the top!!!

The cabinet is spacious, I will also discuss with the inspector if he has any problems with tapping in there vs the riser.

Thank you all again. Once again the Mike Holt web site comes through!!!

Professinal expienced advice ...priceless!! :D
 
I hope you'll forgive my stupidity but I still don't see why the OP says the HO wants a meter. I assume that this service is a for 4 unit condo with a meter for each unit so why is a fifth meter needed? A brief explanation would be appreciated from someone who has the time to educate an old fool!
 
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