MC cable supported by ceiling wire

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Russell Pepper

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I am supporting MC with "ceiling wire" that I installed. .. Does the trailing end of the ceiling wire need to be attached to something, or can I legally snip it off and turn it up?
 
Russell, welcome to the forum! :)

Russell Pepper said:
I am supporting MC with "ceiling wire" that I installed. .. Does the trailing end of the ceiling wire need to be attached to something, or can I legally snip it off and turn it up?
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My take is that simply hanging qualifies for "supported" but not "secured." If the inspector says simply hanging isn't compliant, you really have no argument with him.
 
300.11 Securing and Supporting
(A) Secured in Place Raceways, cable assemblies, boxes, cabinets, and fittings shall be securely fastened in place. Support wires that do not provide secure support shall not be permitted as the sole support. Support wires and associated fittings that provide secure support and that are installed in addition to the ceiling grid support wires shall be permitted as the sole support. Where independent support wires are used, they shall be secured at both ends. Cables and raceways shall not be supported by ceiling grids.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
300.11 Securing and Supporting
(A) Secured in Place Raceways, cable assemblies, boxes, cabinets, and fittings shall be securely fastened in place. Support wires that do not provide secure support shall not be permitted as the sole support. Support wires and associated fittings that provide secure support and that are installed in addition to the ceiling grid support wires shall be permitted as the sole support. Where independent support wires are used, they shall be secured at both ends. Cables and raceways shall not be supported by ceiling grids.
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I see what it says; I am getting dizzy trying to figure it out though! Where is the wire supposed to be secured to on the other end? Is it permissible or not to secure to the same wires which support the grid? The paragraph seems contradictory to me.
 
You can't use the wires that were installed for the support of the ceiling grid to support your raceways or cables. You can install your own support wires and secure them to the grid. They are secured in a manner where they do not carry any of the wieght of the ceiling assembly. They are secured to the grid to limit the movement that they would have if they were not secured to anything on the bottom end.
 
Enforcement in this area has varied by inspector (imagine that). A few inspectors consider the screw eye installed by the ceiling contractor as part of the "ceiling assembly" as referenced in 300.11 and will not allow the MC tie to terminate there. Most will allow the E/C to use the same screw eye.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
You can't use the wires that were installed for the support of the ceiling grid to support your raceways or cables. You can install your own support wires and secure them to the grid. They are secured in a manner where they do not carry any of the wieght of the ceiling assembly. They are secured to the grid to limit the movement that they would have if they were not secured to anything on the bottom end.
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How would someone determine what is what after the fact? Can I tie the wire to itself is that terminated on both ends?
 
Wireless36 said:
How would someone determine what is what after the fact?
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Good question. If it is a fire rated ceiling assembly, you have to identify your support wires, but that is not required by the code for a standard ceiling assembly. You can check with the AHJ before doing the project and if it is going to be an issue, you can install painted wire, wire of a different size or used some other method to identify your supports. Caddy makes a clip for this purpose that secures the bottom end and identifies the support.
Can I tie the wire to itself is that terminated on both ends?
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No. It has to be connected to something to keep it from moving around.
 
Wireless36 said:
How would someone determine what is what after the fact? Can I tie the wire to itself is that terminated on both ends?
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If you've been an inspector for any length of time, you can tell. That is unless the t-bar guy puts the wires in for you, even then you can still usually tell.

A piece of phasing tape goes a long way on making the inspectors job easier.
 
bright yellow caddy clip

bright yellow caddy clip

don_resqcapt19 said:
Good question. If it is a fire rated ceiling assembly, you have to identify your support wires, but that is not required by the code for a standard ceiling assembly. You can check with the AHJ before doing the project and if it is going to be an issue, you can install painted wire, wire of a different size or used some other method to identify your supports. Caddy makes a clip for this purpose that secures the bottom end and identifies the support. No. It has to be connected to something to keep it from moving around.
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Caddy part# EC311 Its a bright yellow metal stick about 6in long, It has a t-grid clip one one end and a 1/4 hole on the other. I have about 500 that I bought In a job lot auction, probably will never use ,But can't selll them on Ebay
 
Wireless36 said:
How would someone determine what is what after the fact?
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I remember something about having to color our added support wires red.

Can I tie the wire to itself is that terminated on both ends?
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If I were your inspector, I'd pass it if you could show me that you can lie in a hammock while you're holding up one end of it. ;)
 
It says that but in practice I've almost always seen MC cables supported by these View attachment 3773 from the very wires holding up the ceiling grid, and never seen anyone hit for it. Is that technically in violation and not really enforced or....???
 
It is enforced here if you get the wrong inspector. ;)


In regards to being able to identify the wire as being installed for electrical and not ceiling support, I suggest to the EC to spray paint the wires while on the floor. One can do it enmass and save time and aggravation.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
In regards to being able to identify the wire as being installed for electrical and not ceiling support, I suggest to the EC to spray paint the wires while on the floor. One can do it enmass and save time and aggravation.
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BINGO! :)

Mash the bundle flat with your boot, and spray paint them in a few spots. We usually have 'upside down' paint in fluorescent colors anyway so it's quick and easy.

This also helps the ceiling contractor remember that those tie wires are yours regardless of them already being hung or laying on the floor with our stock.

LarryFine said:
. . . and leave the funniest-looking-ever over-spray pattern on the floor.
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Yeah, exercising some judgment about where you do the painting is called for. :D
 
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