Ground Conductor

[Wire_nutz]

Recently I was told all raceways must include ground conductors, even metallic raceways.

My understanding of the NEC article 250.118 allows the metal conduit serve as an expectable ground path, and no additional ground conductor is needed.

Please let me know if this is correct, or if this is a code change when did it change?

I am adding to an existing 120 volt general lighting circuit, not in a special occupancy. The existing raceway is EMT and I am also using EMT.

Does the EMT serve as the equipment ground, or must a separate ground conductor be installed with the branch circuit conductors.

 

[augie47]

You are correct per NEC, but there may be some local rule.
See 250.118

(sorry..see you already posted the corrrect Article)

 

[Wire_nutz]

Putting all local and state rules aside, in this situation I am only referencing the NEC.

 

[raider1]

Putting all local and state rules aside, in this situation I am only referencing the NEC.

You are correct. EMT is a recoginized equipment grounding conductor in accordance with 250.118. You are not required to install an EGC of the wire type in EMT.

Chris

 

[steve66]

I'll agree also, the ground wire isn't required. (Unless, by some off chance, this is for a health care facility. Then everything changes.)

Steve

 

[Power Tech]

Okay, you do not have to run a bond wire in EMT.

I run a bond in everything. I'm sure I'll pick up flack from everybody who doesn't pull a bond. The set screw doesn't get tightened, comes loose is pried out of the way in a couple of years to run a plumbing or other line.

AL flex and seal tight are good up to 20 amps. I run a bond in them too.

It's a choice. My father never ran a bond wire unless codes called for it.

If you are not going to run a bond wire, compression fittings make a better bond.

 

[raider1]

The set screw doesn't get tightened, comes loose is pried out of the way in a couple of years to run a plumbing or other line.

The same thing can be said for a improper splice on an EGC of the wire type. If the installer doesn't install the EGC of any type properly it won't function correctly.

If you are not going to run a bond wire, compression fittings make a better bond.

Got anything to back up that statement?

Chris

 

[macmikeman]

Okay, you do not have to run a bond wire in EMT.

I run a bond in everything. I'm sure I'll pick up flack from everybody who doesn't pull a bond. The set screw doesn't get tightened, comes loose is pried out of the way in a couple of years to run a plumbing or other line.

AL flex and seal tight are good up to 20 amps. I run a bond in them too.

It's a choice. My father never ran a bond wire unless codes called for it.

If you are not going to run a bond wire, compression fittings make a better bond.

Except for the compression fittings found on the shelf at the big box store. Tighten those all the way down and you can sometimes slide the conduit right out of them with almost no effort. Let's just say it was a trial purchase that never got repeated...

 

[augie47]

rut-roh

rut-roh

:grin:

.........................................................If you are not going to run a bond wire, compression fittings make a better bond.

Whenever I see that post here I am reminded of the old Abbott & Costello (shows my age, huh) "Slowly I Turn" skit
Experience has told me that the statement is possibly an opinion. If not, as Chris asks "you have anything to back that up"
It is very possible you have just poked a stick in a Forum hornet's nest
Old age prevents me from recalling the engineered results that one of the more knowledgeable members will possibly quote for you, but I believe the results of such studies show the raceway is the "best" ground and compression couplings are not necessarily a "better" method than set-screw (actually I think the studies show the opposite)
Good Luck !:grin:

 

[skeshesh]

Ground wire

Ground wire

I think it's an obvious point that it's legal to use the metallic raceway as the ground. What I think (keep in mind almost all enigneering specs I've seen calls for a EGC run regardless) is that its a valid point that poor workmanship can compromise both methods, but if you have a metallic raceway and run a EGC anyway doesn't that offer redundancy and a much better chance of not having the ground path compromised?

 

[augie47]

I think it's an obvious point that it's legal to use the metallic raceway as the ground. What I think (keep in mind almost all enigneering specs I've seen calls for a EGC run regardless) is that its a valid point that poor workmanship can compromise both methods, but if you have a metallic raceway and run a EGC anyway doesn't that offer redundancy and a much better chance of not having the ground path compromised?

I agree, but, as we may see, it's a "hot topic" for a few members.

 

[celtic]

Now that an NEC answer has been given........care to answer a question:

Recently I was told .....

....by whom?

EC
EE
EI
GC
??

 

[Power Tech]

The same thing can be said for a improper splice on an EGC of the wire type. If the installer doesn't install the EGC of any type properly it won't function correctly.

Agreed.

Got anything to back up that statement?

Chris

Pure logic.

 

[infinity]

Okay, you do not have to run a bond wire in EMT.

I run a bond in everything. I'm sure I'll pick up flack from everybody who doesn't pull a bond. The set screw doesn't get tightened, comes loose is pried out of the way in a couple of years to run a plumbing or other line.

It's great if you want to run and EGC in every conduit but the bottom line is that the cost is coming out of your pocket. We will pull them in if someone is actually paying for them otherwise you get the metallic raceway as the EGC.

AL flex and seal tight are good up to 20 amps. I run a bond in them too.

You might want to check 250.118(5)&(6) for the requirements for FMC and LFMC.

 

[Power Tech]

:grin:

Whenever I see that post here I am reminded of the old Abbott & Costello (shows my age, huh) "Slowly I Turn" skit
Experience has told me that the statement is possibly an opinion. If not, as Chris asks "you have anything to back that up"
It is very possible you have just poked a stick in a Forum hornet's nest
Old age prevents me from recalling the engineered results that one of the more knowledgeable members will possibly quote for you, but I believe the results of such studies show the raceway is the "best" ground and compression couplings are not necessarily a "better" method than set-screw (actually I think the studies show the opposite)
Good Luck !:grin:

Okay next time I have the Biddle micro ohm meter out I will do some tests.

 

[GoldenVolt]

Unfortunately you can't trust one method for grounding. The NEC is only the minimum you can get by with. I like to sleep at night, I will run a EGC in every raceway I use.:grin:

 

[Power Tech]

Unfortunately you can't trust one method for grounding. The NEC is only the minimum you can get by with. I like to sleep at night, I will run a EGC in every raceway I use.:grin:

Who knows, it may be a wast of money. It also may save a life.

I agree the NEC is just a "minimum". It is a guideline.

 

[tryinghard]

Okay, you do not have to run a bond wire in EMT.

I run a bond in everything. I'm sure I'll pick up flack from everybody who doesn't pull a bond. The set screw doesn't get tightened, comes loose is pried out of the way in a couple of years to run a plumbing or other line...

True but we don't want to get lazy with fittings the conduit still has to be an effective path or its in violation even with an EGC installed.

 

[celtic]

Unfortunately you can't trust one method for grounding. The NEC is only the minimum you can get by with. I like to sleep at night, I will run a EGC in every raceway I use.:grin:

Why not put in 2 EGCs along with the metallic raceway....3 for PVC?

You can never get too much sleep, right?

 

[tryinghard]

I?m one of those who say, ?Code minimum is extremely safe and good practice?. Using the word ?minimum? can easily imply - derogatorily - unsafe and or cheep.

Sure are a lot of smileys in this post :roll: :-?