fire alarm door holds

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Corey Zachel

Member
Location
Northwest Ohio
is there any reason i cant put door holds on a non rated wall set of doors and tie into the fire alarm? I would rather these instead of kicks or wedges. will an inspector force smokes on either side then? if all of this is not forbidden then can i put a button in at the entrance of the building for the secretary to push and close all of the doors that have holds? will the inspector say I am mixing building security and fire alarm and need a UL panel rated for both? any help would be appreciated.
 
ivsenroute

ivsenroute

Senior Member
Location
Florida
How about a little more clarification on what you are asking. For what purpose? Do you mean magnetic locks? Is the door an egress, egress door or part of a fire rated assembly? Clarify yourself a little better please.
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Sounds like he wants magnetic door holder that will hold the door open.

If these doors are permitted by the fire code to be held open by using a wooden door stops I don't see why you can't use a magnetic version of a door stop.


imagehandler.ashx
 
ivsenroute

ivsenroute

Senior Member
Location
Florida
If they are magnetic locks then they have to release with loss of power.

If they are magnetic locks that hold the door open then they have to release to allow the door to close during a fire alarm situation.
 
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nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
Corey Zachel said:
is there any reason i cant put door holds on a non rated wall set of doors and tie into the fire alarm? I would rather these instead of kicks or wedges. will an inspector force smokes on either side then? if all of this is not forbidden then can i put a button in at the entrance of the building for the secretary to push and close all of the doors that have holds? will the inspector say I am mixing building security and fire alarm and need a UL panel rated for both? any help would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

You can tie a manual switch, but ensure that they release when the power goes out or on alarm as well. A monentary switch to break the load would be fine. Just tell the inspector what you want to do. Its a "fail safe" situation, so it should be easy for him to say yes.

Smokes on either side of the door is another situation. I would check with the AHJ on whether or not you need smoke the smokes. It also depends on whether the fire doors are separating two fire rated areas, is smoke control needed because these are huge warehouse doors etc.
 
steve66

steve66

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Engineer
I could see some inspectors having an issue with the push button. Yes, its fail safe, but generally everything that ties to the fire alarm system must be UL listed for use on a fire alarm system.

I could also see some possible future confusion about the lack of a smoke detector inside the rooms.

So, I could see this one going either way. You might just consider putting the extra hold opens on another power supply, separate from the fire alarm system.
 
ivsenroute

ivsenroute

Senior Member
Location
Florida
macmikeman said:
Depends. FAR 107.14 Airport AOA access doors are to be fail secure. They get an exemption. I bet bank doors and prisons get a break also, but I wouldn't know much about those doors.
Click to expand...

You are correct about the prison which would be classified as an "I" group. Need to see what an airport would be classified as. Probably a B and A.



1008.1.3.4 Access-controlled egress doors. The
entrance doors in a means of egress in buildings with an
occupancy in Group A, B, E, M, R-1 or R-2 and entrance
doors to tenant spaces in occupancies in Groups A, B, E,
M, R-1 and R-2 are permitted to be equipped with an
approved entrance and egress access control system
which shall be installed in accordance with all of the following
criteria:
1. A sensor shall be provided on the egress side
arranged to detect an occupant approaching the
doors. The doors shall be arranged to unlock by a
signal from or loss of power to the sensor.
2. Loss of power to that part of the access control system
which locks the doors shall automatically
unlock the doors.
3. The doors shall be arranged to unlock from a manual
unlocking device located 40 inches to 48
inches (1016mmto 1219 mm) vertically above the
floor and within 5 feet (1524 mm) of the secured
doors. Ready access shall be provided to the manual
unlocking device and the device shall be
clearly identified by a sign that reads ?PUSH TO
EXIT.? When operated, the manual unlocking
device shall result in direct interruption of power
to the lock?independent of the access control system
electronics?and the doors shall remain
unlocked for a minimum of 30 seconds.
4. Activation of the building fire alarm system, if
provided, shall automatically unlock the doors,
and the doors shall remain unlocked until the fire
alarm system has been reset.
5. Activation of the building automatic sprinkler or
fire detection system, if provided, shall automatically
unlock the doors. The doors shall remain
unlocked until the fire alarm system has been reset.
6. Entrance doors in buildings with an occupancy in
Group A, B, E or M shall not be secured from the
egress side during periods that the building is open
to the general public.
 
C

Corey Zachel

Member
Location
Northwest Ohio
steve66 said:
I could see some inspectors having an issue with the push button. Yes, its fail safe, but generally everything that ties to the fire alarm system must be UL listed for use on a fire alarm system.

I could also see some possible future confusion about the lack of a smoke detector inside the rooms.

So, I could see this one going either way. You might just consider putting the extra hold opens on another power supply, separate from the fire alarm system.
Click to expand...

This is the direction we have gone. I was talking about magnetic holds on corridor doors that were not fire rated. Thanks all for the answers and sorry for the fast typing and small detail. I didn't see it being a big deal, but my boss would rather not give anything else for the marshal to criticize or delay occupancy at the end. Everything was fire listed except possibly the pushbutton.
what i was trying to accomplish was the secretary of a school being able to kill power to all of the corridor doors to the classroom wings without an alarm. this was in addition to the door access fab system and electric striken doors. the school was "what if'ing someone got by the main entrance." my first response was call out a code of sort to the teachers to lock classrooms over the phones like they do in inner city schools.
 
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M

macmikeman

Senior Member
Location
Planet macmikeman
ivsenroute said:
You are correct about the prison which would be classified as an "I" group. Need to see what an airport would be classified as. Probably a B and A.
Click to expand...

I was referring to AOA doors. (Airport Operational Access). Those are the ones that the public cannot go thru that lead to the planes and baggage. We still put touch sensitive bars on the protected side that cut power to the mag locks in any case whether the power grid was up or we were on battery backup. Before 9-11 they were working on making all large airports pretty secure, I bet they are fantastic now, but I haven't done any of those installs since way before 9-11
 
P

Power Tech

Senior Member
Location
Lebec, California
steve66 said:
I could see some inspectors having an issue with the push button. Yes, its fail safe, but generally everything that ties to the fire alarm system must be UL listed for use on a fire alarm system.

I could also see some possible future confusion about the lack of a smoke detector inside the rooms.

So, I could see this one going either way. You might just consider putting the extra hold opens on another power supply, separate from the fire alarm system.
Click to expand...

I agree, keep it separate. I have used the hold opens to close doors in executives offices with a button under the desk.

I do not see an issue for the FD and think it would be a clean way to shut all the doors at once.
 
Security101

Security101

Senior Member
Location
Northern Indiana
Here's one (emergency door release) made for this application, there are other similar options as well.

419.jpg


I too would make it a seperate circuit from the fire alarm, if possible.

Jim
 
e57

e57

Senior Member
Location
San Francisco, CA
Corey Zachel said:
what i was trying to accomplish was the secretary of a school being able to kill power to all of the corridor doors to the classroom wings without an alarm. this was in addition to the door access fab system and electric striken doors. the school was "what if'ing someone got by the main entrance." my first response was call out a code of sort to the teachers to lock classrooms over the phones like they do in inner city schools.
Click to expand...
So this would release - and then lock the doors? I'm not sure I like the idea... Would this both prevent movement, and or escape? (In a Columbine type situation.)
 
C

Corey Zachel

Member
Location
Northwest Ohio
e57 said:
So this would release - and then lock the doors? I'm not sure I like the idea... Would this both prevent movement, and or escape? (In a Columbine type situation.)
Click to expand...

Doors lock automatic, panic on the side of egress out. I have made them seperate. prevents wierdos coming in. you can always get out for emergency.
 
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