G.F.C.I. needed ?

[chicar]

I was told the 2008 code says we need to install a g.f.c.i. for water coolers. The recepticle is installed inside the unit. If the g.f.c.i. trips, you would have to take the cooler apart to reset it. I looked in the code book and did not find anything. Can you help me ?

 

[iwire]

422.52

You could use a GFCI breaker or a faceless GFCI device where it could be accessed.

 

[chicar]

Thanks man. I was looking at 210.8. Did not think to look at 422. Again thanks

 

[iwire]

Thanks man. I was looking at 210.8. Did not think to look at 422.

I hear you, it is not that clear.

210.8 covers locations that require GFCIs

GFCI requirements for specific equipment are spread out in different locations throughout the NEC, water coolers, vending machines, pool pumps etc.

 

[chris kennedy]

FWIW, I quit trying to nail them as per template. I install a GFCI receptacle horizontally just below the drinking fountain.

 

[LarryFine]

I install a GFCI receptacle horizontally just below the drinking fountain.

Was that with ground left or ground right? :grin:

 

[ceb58]

This is not how to do it

 

[Volta]

I am not sure that a water cooler needs to be protected by a GFCI. Good idea, probably, but an inverted bottle that uses gravity to dispense water is different from a fountain with pressure that could produce a jet or spray of water. 422.52.

 

[brother]

I am not sure that a water cooler needs to be protected by a GFCI. Good idea, probably, but an inverted bottle that uses gravity to dispense water is different from a fountain with pressure that could produce a jet or spray of water. 422.52.

I was thinking the same thing, an electric drinking fountain is different from a 'gravity powered water bottle'. Anyone else think differently?

 

[masterinbama]

FWIW, I quit trying to nail them as per template. I install a GFCI receptacle horizontally just below the drinking fountain.

This is not how to do it

Why not? That is horizontal just below the fountain, like Chris said.

 

[M. D.]

I am not sure that a water cooler needs to be protected by a GFCI. Good idea, probably, but an inverted bottle that uses gravity to dispense water is different from a fountain with pressure that could produce a jet or spray of water. 422.52.

This proposal was rejected at the first stage,.. then changed and reappeared at the ROC as this

Submitter: Dan Leaf, Seneca, SC
Comment on Proposal No: 17-28
Recommendation: Accept proposal revised:
Electric drinking fountains shall be provided with ground-fault circuit-
Interrupter protection.

Substantiation: The submitter has proposed a good safety requirement.
Panel Meeting Action: Accept in Principle
Add new 422.52 to read as follows:

422.52 Electric Drinking Fountains. Electric drinking fountains shall be
Protected with ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection.
Panel Statement:

The panel accepts the submitter’s recommendation but has
Added a title and used the word “protected” rather than “provided” for clarity.
It
has been brought to the attention of the panel that there have been documented
fatalities that have been attributed to this kind of installation.
This requirement is not intended to apply to bottled water coolers.
Number Eligible to Vote: 14
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 13
Ballot Not Returned: 1 Gill, C.
Comment on Affirmative:
BLEWITT, T.: A single incident was described to the panel though two were
Reported to have occurred. The described incident involved a water fountain
where the factory-supplied grounding pin of the attachment plug cap was removed

 

[M. D.]

Thought I would post the original ,.. I'm not sure this is good code making .. Had the ground pin not been removed , in the "single incident described", would there have been a problem ? The type of people who will break off a ground pin will side step gfci protection. And at the ROC stage ?,...

The submitter has proposed a good safety requirement.

Well that's good enough for me ,.. a description , is that the same as a documented fact??,.. and a "that's good safety" substantiation ...

17-28 Log #506 NEC-P17 Final Action: Reject
(422.52)
_______________________________________________________________
Submitter: Jessica King, Oswego County Boces
Recommendation: Water fountains should be GFCI protected by code.
Substantiation: This is to ensure the safety of individuals who drink or even
touch the water/drinking fountains. If the fountain is metal, an individual will
get shocked when they come in contact with the button, if they don?t get
shocked by the side for a certain reason and there is a bad connection, they will
get shocked from the electricity flowing through the water.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The submitter did not provide a recommendation for
consideration in accordance with the Regulations Governing Committee
Projects, Section 4-3.3(c).
The submitter is encouraged to review and resubmit for the ROC with
specific proposed text.
A definition for a ?water fountain? would be in order.
Number Eligible to Vote: 14
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 14
Comment on Affirmative:
YASENCHAK, R.: We agree with the submitter and believe their intent could
be met with the following text:
?Drinking fountains should be GFCI protected by code.?

 

[M. D.]

Whats more ,.. this is part of the very next proposal ,.. which touched off a whole lotta discussion and did not meet the "good safety" threshold....

Even if half of those stats are false claims there are documents to review at NFPA headquarters ,... just thought the discrepancy was kinda funny ,.. If I had to guess which one of these would make it into the code ,..Oh,.. that's right ,..silly me ,.. the GFCI protection above,is not required to be factory installed ,.. now it makes perfect sense.


17-29 Log #3301 NEC-P17 Final Action: Reject
(422.52)
_______________________________________________________________
TCC Action: It was the action of the Technical Correlating Committee that
this Proposal be reported as ?Reject? because less than two-thirds of the
members eligible to vote have voted in the affirmative.
Submitter: Aaron B. Chase, Leviton Mfg. Co. Inc.
Recommendation: Add text to read as follows:
422.52 Cord-and-Plug-Connected Electric Fans. All single-phase cord-and
plug-connected electric fans shall be provided with factory-installed LCDI or
AFCI protection. The LCDI or AFCI protection shall be an integral part of the
attachment plug or be located in the power supply cord within 300 mm (12 in.)
of the attachment plug.
Substantiation: Electric fans were responsible for 2,600 fires attended by the
Fire Services in 1998 according to the 1998 Residential Fire Loss Estimates
published by the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) in 2002.
These fires resulted in 10 deaths, 120 civilian injuries and $35.9 million in
property damage. This is the highest number of electric fan fires over the past
five years. The CPSC conducted 243 in-depth incident investigations from
1990 to 2001. Sixty-three of these fires ( 26 percent) involved cord failures.
Note: Supporting material is available for review at NFPA Headquarters.