System and MBJ Installations

Status
Not open for further replies.
electsafeman

electsafeman

Member
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
This is an issue that has to do with the lack of understanding related to the "System and MBJ"

See Section 408.40 Grounding of Panelboards in the 2008 NEC.

Questions:

Is there a way that someone can address concerns about persons who are portraying themselves as so called SME's ?electrical inspectors? without proper recognized credentials, such as by being certified by some State, City, or Town, or by the IAEI or NFPA?

What is the procedure in your area?

Is there an official grievance body or process anywhere?

For instance, if an engineer without a license signed off on a drawing could they be reported to the appropriate licensing body?
 
I believe it is different from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
In our jurisdiction, which really is NYS, there are no state requirements to be an electrical inspector. NO tests, licensing or prior experience in the field.
The local town/municipality has jurisdiction. Some require a certificate. Some require a pulse. Some do not care at all. Some care alot.
I know electrical inspectors around where I am who do not even have a code book. I know inspectors around where I am who do not understand the difference in regards to service conductors and branch circuits/feeders, and they get made when someone questions them - go figure.

Joe
We will not conquer this situation until there is more concern by the people of authority, or maybe until the general public realizes what is really going on.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
I believe it is different from jurisdiction to jurisdiction....................................................................
Click to expand...
Same here. The State (TN) requires IAEI certification, but, although that requirement "filters down" to the many local governments that elect to perform their own inspections, it is not rigidly enforced. Many "local" inspectors are "jack of all trades" who perform multitask inspections.

Pierre C Belarge said:
Joe
We will not conquer this situation until there is more concern by the people of authority, or maybe until the general public realizes what is really going on.
Click to expand...
I completely agree. In most TN locales EI is looked upon as a necessary evil. It is not a well paid job. IMHO, TN is fortunate that a lot of the inspectors are also contractors or are retired and thus normally have a great deal of field experience. In most rural areas, where one must drive many miles between inspections, it's not a gold mine at $23 per inspection
(no mileage reimbursement, no benefits, etc). As Pierre states, I don't see improvement until the public or insurance companies call for better inspections. Fortunately most of the EIs are self motivated and dedicated to the job.
Often I find solace in reminding myself how bad it would be if we were not out there at all. This is reinforced by the State allowing "homeowner" permits.
 
In Ohio one can not inspect for ~compliance with the electrical~ Code for remuneration, AFAIK. It is a state Administrative Code, but I don't know the best complaint process.

I feel that a simple EC, or even a non-EC could inspect systems for safety, for money, while complying with the Ohio Revised Code, but could not speak to compliance with enforceable regulations, only physics and likelihoods. I'm not complying with Charlie's Rule right now, so I might be wrong. ;)

Jxofaltrds would know . . .
 
Thank you Gentlemen!

Thank you Gentlemen!

Thank you Gentlemen:

The types of inspections that are being made are basically very similiar to the reinspection of existing dwelling units, or inspections of repairs and remodels of various small commercial buildings; and although the SME's are Master Electricians; we question their interpretation of what is considered as a Life, Health, and Safety Hazard.

We base our thoughts for this condition on the definiton of Imminent Danger provided by OSHA.

I am familiar with NFPA 73 and would like to see that document considered for use as a guide or even NFPA 70A.

Besides the whole issue centers around the conditions that were here before our boots were on the ground and most of the work was done by non licensed persons and even by the military as well.

The story will unfold soon and I will take on the arguments as time passes.

PS: If the link above is considered as a dump I would like to know why that function is enabled in the message format. Just a head's up.

Milton! :D
 
electsafeman said:
For instance, if an engineer without a license signed off on a drawing could they be reported to the appropriate licensing body?
Click to expand...
Yes. A report to the state department in charge of licensing of engineers will likely result in the offender being fined. I receive periodic newsletters from some of the states in which I hole (or once held) a license. There is usually a page or two listing fines and other punitive actions taken against persons performing engineering work without a license or performing engineering work outside the scope of their license.
 
electsafeman said:
PS: If the link above is considered as a dump I would like to know why that function is enabled in the message format.
Click to expand...
The function is enabled in order to allow members to provide backup information, without having to copy and paste large blocks of stuff onto the forum directly.

A link would be considered (by me, at least) to be a "dump," if there is no text included to explain where the link will take the user, or to at least give a hint of why the link has been provided. I consider it to be a "necessary courtesy" to the membership of this forum to give them enough information to enable them to decide if they would want to follow the link.

In this specific case, the nature and reason for your link is clear enough. So I would not consider it a "dump."
 
Thank you

Thank you

charlie b said:
Yes. A report to the state department in charge of licensing of engineers will likely result in the offender being fined. I receive periodic newsletters from some of the states in which I hole (or once held) a license. There is usually a page or two listing fines and other punitive actions taken against persons performing engineering work without a license or performing engineering work outside the scope of their license.
Click to expand...

Thank you Charlie! If you have any sources for some samples that will be appreciated. We are going to use Annex H in the NEC to insist that "electrical inspectors" be certified by a nationally recognzed testing agency.
 
For reference, if neededf, in TN, The regulatory board at Commerce & Insurance will take action against contractors and engineers performing work beyond the scope of their licenses.
You will find engineering firms and contractors listed in this report on violations.

http://tn.gov/commerce/boards/archive.shtml
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top