Self grounding receptacles

[mark32]

If one were to use a self grounding receptacle in a properly grounded, flush mounted metal box, would the receptacle's ground screw still need to be bonded to the box to be code compliant?

 

[rcarroll]

An equipment bonding jumper would not be required. 250.146

 

[LarryFine]

Understand, Mark, that the screw bonds the receptacle, not the box.

 

[mark32]

Thank you rcarroll, I overlooked that particular article. Thank you too Larry, but I hope I didn't give the impression I am clueless about grounding, I never considered a box should be grounded in the manner you described. In my post I purposely wrote "in a properly grounded, flush mounted metal box" to show I'm fairly well read on article 250. In this case the boxes in question have been wired in bx and up until now I thought I had to use a grounding tail for the receptacle, now I see I don't if using self grounding devices. Thanks!

 

[augie47]

I've noticed, even with self-grounding devices, better than 95% of the jobs I see have grounds attached to the devices.

 

[jeremysterling]

I've noticed, even with self-grounding devices, better than 95% of the jobs I see have grounds attached to the devices.

If the job is using MCAP, you will notice a significant reduction in the occurrence of ground pigtails.

 

[LarryFine]

Thank you too Larry, but I hope I didn't give the impression I am clueless about grounding, I never considered a box should be grounded in the manner you described. In my post I purposely wrote "in a properly grounded, flush mounted metal box" to show I'm fairly well read on article 250.

You certainly did, and my apologies.

 

[mark32]

You certainly did, and my apologies.

Not a problem at all my good man, thanks for the reply.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

Plenty of raised covers are not permitted for grounding, so if you're using an industrial raised cover, for a receptacle or a switch, you still need the pigtail. 250.146. (B)

 

[LarryFine]

Plenty of raised covers are not permitted for grounding, so if you're using an industrial raised cover, for a receptacle or a switch, you still need the pigtail. 250.146. (B)

You may still need one, and only for a receptacle. See 250.146(A).

 

[cowboyjwc]

Also see 404.9(B)

 

[mcclary's electrical]

You may still need one, and only for a receptacle. See 250.146(A).

Good point Larry, I never caught that until you pointed it out and I re-read it. I've been doing this for years on switches for nothing.:roll:

 

[mcclary's electrical]

Also see 404.9(B)

ok ,,,I take that back, Larry, I've been doing this for years on switches because of this. I thought I had read this. Couldn't remember where. Thanks Cowboy

 

[cowboyjwc]

ok ,,,I take that back, Larry, I've been doing this for years on switches because of this. I thought I had read this. Couldn't remember where. Thanks Cowboy

Larry had me going there for a minute.

 

[infinity]

ok ,,,I take that back, Larry, I've been doing this for years on switches because of this. I thought I had read this. Couldn't remember where. Thanks Cowboy

What does 404.9(B) have to do with an industrial metal cover and a bonding jumper. Are you saying that one is required?

 

[mcclary's electrical]

What does 404.9(B) have to do with an industrial metal cover and a bonding jumper. Are you saying that one is required?

According to the wording, Yes

Shall be considered effectively grounded if either of the two conditions are met.
1) The switch is mounted with metal screws TO A METAL BOX, or to a nonmetallic box with integral means for grounding devices.

(We're mounting to a raised cover NOT A BOX)

2) An equipment grounding conductor is connected to an equipment grounding termination.

I say, unless your cover is listed for grounded, you have to go with option 2

 

[busman]

If one were to use a self grounding receptacle in a properly grounded, flush mounted metal box, would the receptacle's ground screw still need to be bonded to the box to be code compliant?

Notice the OP said flush mounted.

Mark

 

[mcclary's electrical]

Notice the OP said flush mounted.

Mark

He also said receptacle..... :roll:......We're aware we got off subject, but I still say you need it on switches AS WELL as receptacles if a raised cover is not listed for grounding.

 

[infinity]

According to the wording, Yes

Shall be considered effectively grounded if either of the two conditions are met.
1) The switch is mounted with metal screws TO A METAL BOX, or to a nonmetallic box with integral means for grounding devices.

(We're mounting to a raised cover NOT A BOX)

2) An equipment grounding conductor is connected to an equipment grounding termination.

I say, unless your cover is listed for grounded, you have to go with option 2

Where's the requirement for a listed cover in 404.9(B)? It says a metal cover with metal screws connected to an EGC. A metal cover connected to a grounded metal box wouldn't be compliant?

 

[mcclary's electrical]

Where's the requirement for a listed cover in 404.9(B)? It says a metal cover with metal screws connected to an EGC. A metal cover connected to a grounded metal box wouldn't be compliant?

IMO, the wording is IFFY.....the switch shall be considered effectively grounded when it is mounted with metal screws, TO A METAL BOX. That is not the case here. It's mounting to the raised cover, not the box.

Secondly, 404.9 (b) effectively makes you realize that THE SWITCH IS REQUIRED TO GROUND THE PLATE, NOT THE PLATE GROUNDING THE SWITCH.