Critical power for toilet flush valves

[bgisborn]

Charlie, I need your help. This reply does not pertain exactly to this thread but I'm taking advantage of it.
Recently we have have a rise in electrically operated toilet fixtures and sinks. These have become very popular in hospitals because they reduce cross contamination hand-sink-hand.
Nowhere in the code does it say specifically that wash basins and toilet facilities should be on any of the emergency circuits. Given their potential importance I would think they should be on the critical branch.
Is it required that they be fed from a critical branch source?
Also, to bring it more in line with the thread. What about GFCI protection?

Bob

 

[raider1]

I have moved this post to it's own thread so as to not hijack the previous thread.

Chris

 

[Jljohnson]

The literature that I have read pertaining to health care facilities and emergency power basically says that EM power will be provided to equipmet that is "essential for facility operation" IMHO, the only people that can tell you whether a piece of equipment is "essential" or not are the facility managers. I can't remember the publication that that came from but it was cited by a state medical facility inspector in a recent inspection at one of our client's facilities.

 

[charlie b]

There is a vast great difference between "important" and "critical." I would never place these types of loads on the essential branch. I don't think I have ever put them anywhere other than the normal branch. But then, I do more laboratories lately than hospitals. In the buildings I have designed recently, the owner's decision is that the backup power supply is only capable of doing the minimum necessary to get the people safely out of the building, and to keep some limited equipment going, but not to continue normal operations. Hospitals are different; then need to keep going. So I think it appropriate to put these items on the equipment branch, but not the critical branch.

 

[weressl]

There is a vast great difference between "important" and "critical." I would never place these types of loads on the essential branch. I don't think I have ever put them anywhere other than the normal branch. But then, I do more laboratories lately than hospitals. In the buildings I have designed recently, the owner's decision is that the backup power supply is only capable of doing the minimum necessary to get the people safely out of the building, and to keep some limited equipment going, but not to continue normal operations. Hospitals are different; then need to keep going. So I think it appropriate to put these items on the equipment branch, but not the critical branch.

Hmmmmm...I would not want to define for a surgeon what is critical to them to safely terminate or conclude the surgery. I would ask them....

 

[DetroitEE]

I put all of the hardwired faucet and toilet sensors on the Equipment Branch in a hospital I recently worked on. I personally think the Equipment Branch is the more appropriate branch (in a hospital) than Critical.

If its a nursing home or limited health care facility where you only have Life Safety and Critical branches...well I guess they would have to go on Critical. But I definitely think that its not unreasonable to put these on an emergency branch...especially given that it is a health risk if people cant wash their hands after using the bathroom, and their load is practically negligable. It's not like you're going to have to upsize your generator to account for the faucet sensors

 

[tyha]

we just finished a hospital and all the auto valves were on a non critical ckt and were fed from the load side of the GFI by the sink as per the plans.

 

[brother]

Sounds like my thread I started "Electric power for sinks "


http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=119639

Maybe a code proposal is needed.

 

[ptrip]

Sounds like my thread I started "Electric power for sinks "


http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=119639

Maybe a code proposal is needed.

Oh I don't think a Code proposal is necessary. It's definitely a matter of design. Does the owner want it to work without power or not.

Yes, it is much more sanitary to flush the toilets and be able to wash ones hands, but it is not a matter of eminent public safety. (and barring natural disasters, the power will be back on shortly)

I personally have not designed a facility with the battery operated fixtures lately ... the plumbing designers don't like them for some reason. I hadn't thought of putting them on the generator until recently ... but now I do ... on the optional standby branch (not legally required branch).

If you're terribly worried about the sanitation of it all ... provide a bottle of Purell ... just like in the Porta-Johns!