Can This be correct ? Service load info

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Ken In NJ

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Today I was given a set of prints to look at by the boss's wife (He is out of town)

Its for a Pizza store.

The prints call for a new 200 amp 120/240 volt single phase service.

The load info on the prints is as follows

Connected Load watts 52866 Demand Load Watts 45125

Connected Load Amps 220.28 Demand Load Amps 188.02


I am thinking that this should be a 225 amp service or even a 300 amp

Please let me know if my thoughts are correct

Thanks
 
Rewire said:
the demand load is what you use to size your service.
Click to expand...

Thanks

Does anyone agree that maybe the service should maybe upgraded to at least a 225 ?

188 amps is way close to 200 .. with hardly any room for future equipment. Or the parking lot lights and wall paks that are not shown on the print load info.
 
Ken In NJ said:
Does anyone agree that maybe the service should maybe upgraded to at least a 225 ?

188 amps is way close to 200 .. with hardly any room for future equipment. Or the parking lot lights and wall paks that are not shown on the print load info.
Click to expand...

Yes, 225 would be a good idea. The problem is, are you in a competitive bid? Is this a set of engineered plans, if so, what does the engineer know that you don't?

If this a bid job and you are working from an engineered plan, then you should probably bid the job as shown, and sell the upgrades (maybe after you win the job).
 
Ken, the difference between connected load and demand load is the possibility of simultaneous operation.

The difference between the demand load and the service size is the likelihood of simultaneous operation.

Even then, the 80% limit applies to continuous loading. Could the 188a be continuous for three hours?
 
hardworkingstiff said:
Yes, 225 would be a good idea. The problem is, are you in a competitive bid? Is this a set of engineered plans, if so, what does the engineer know that you don't?

If this a bid job and you are working from an engineered plan, then you should probably bid the job as shown, and sell the upgrades (maybe after you win the job).
Click to expand...

No bid .. my boss has been doing work for this guy for 10 plus years. The store owner will be happy to do what we suggest.

They are engineered "cookie cutter" plans

The engineer ? Don't get me started :grin: This is the 2nd set of prints .. the first ones were listing and showing a 200 amp single phase service, but when you looked at the panel Sch .. they showed A, B and C phases and did there calculations off of that :confused: We had to let them know that single phase services do not have a third phase :cool:
 
LarryFine said:
Ken, the difference between connected load and demand load is the possibility of simultaneous operation.

The difference between the demand load and the service size is the likelihood of simultaneous operation.

Even then, the 80% limit applies to continuous loading. Could the 188a be continuous for three hours?
Click to expand...

No .. I do not believe that it could be continuous for 3 hours .. only chance of that would be in the dead heat of the summer with all three A/C units trying to cool down a store with lots of heat sources
 
Ken In NJ said:
The engineer ? Don't get me started :grin: This is the 2nd set of prints .. the first ones were listing and showing a 200 amp single phase service, but when you looked at the panel Sch .. they showed A, B and C phases and did there calculations off of that :confused: We had to let them know that single phase services do not have a third phase :cool:
Click to expand...


If the connected load is correct, IMO, a 3-phase 208/120 service will be more than adequate. I'd suggest he bump up to the 225-amp if it's a 120/240 service.
 
Ken In NJ said:
There is no three phase in the area, to bring it in would be costly



Two Gas fired ovens, which only require a 20 amp 2 pole circuit each
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Ken,

That's a major plus for what you have described. The HVAC, refrigeration, I take it, are the only heavy electrical loads then? Water, and furnace heaters are gas? If so, considering the in and outdoor lighting to be the only other factored concern, the 200A service can work if reducing lighting with LED technology possibly. Listing the load calcs for us may help with a more detailed energy takeoff. rbj
 
If the service has been calculated per the NEC the continuous and non continuous loads have already been accounted for. If this calculated load is 188 amp a 188 amp service would be fine and a 200 amp is more than adequate.
 
091118-0913

Ken In NJ:

My son-in-law works for Domino's. Currently in food distribution, but for the last 12 years in equipment.

Several points. Most stores use gas ovens and heating. Most current stores are single phase 200 A. If a franchisee wants 3 phase equipment they have to provide a signed letter verifying that in fact they have 3 phase service. For any new single phase applications or upgrades the recommendation is that a 400 A service be provided.

Also note that neither refrigeration or air conditioning equipment is likely to have the compressor running continuously.

.
 
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