Panel workspace for HVAC

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necbuff1

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I have rejected an HVAC installation three times and each time they call uptown to complain. To make a long story short, upon the third visit one item still was not corrected. The installer placed a pulling tee below the panel to protect his refrigerant lines and when I went back on the last trip, the installer poured a pile of gravel in top of it, I guess thinking that made it below grade. A state official told me it was OK and he was gonna pass it b/c I said I wouldn't. I am fully familiar with 110.26 so there is no reason to revisit that. I am just looking for opinions at this point. The panel is a 4 wire 120/240V installation......
 
welcome to the forum !
don't happen to have a picture of the install do you ?
I'm a bit lost. Do we now have a panel with refrigerant lines in a bed of gravel below it ?
 
It is a 4 wire panel with a white plastic tee, assuming a plumbing tee, that violates the workspace, and their fix was to pile gravel over the tee. I do have pictures but I dont know how to post them................... And thanks for welcoming me, but I am actually not new here. My old username NECBUFF is my original name but I forgot my password and changed email addresses. I have not posted here in a very long time prior to me signing back up :)
 
jumper said:
What is a pulling tee? So, this tee thing and the refridgerant lines are both in the working space?
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Jumper,
Could the "pulling-tee" be an LB with a 45 degree cover-plate?
I am thinking of he kind that sites very tight on a corner.
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I don't think I am saying what I want to say :)

But the big issue, I think, is whether it is "below grade".
 
necbuff1 said:
I do have pictures but I dont know how to post them
Click to expand...

When you click on the reply button, and the window opens that you type the reply in, scroll down to where you see the "Manage Attachments" button

Click on it, and a new small window will open, look for the "upload files from your computer" and click on the "Browse" button, and point it to the image you want to post, you can add sevral, but there is a limit, I think 8, but you must upload them one at a time, after your done with the uploading, click "close this window" and your photos will be attached to your post.;)

And Welcome back, Its has been a long time.:D
 
necbuff1 said:
It is a 4 wire panel with a white plastic tee, assuming a plumbing tee, that violates the workspace, and their fix was to pile gravel over the tee. I do have pictures but I dont know how to post them................... And thanks for welcoming me, but I am actually not new here. My old username NECBUFF is my original name but I forgot my password and changed email addresses. I have not posted here in a very long time prior to me signing back up :)
Click to expand...

If that was why you failed him and he effectively raised the floor with gravel then it is no longer in the work space and no violation
 
IMO, some of these HVAC guys need a little education from time to time. Putting dirt over

the tee-fitting shows the caliber of " tradesman " you are dealing with.
 
benaround said:
IMO, some of these HVAC guys need a little education from time to time. Putting dirt over

the tee-fitting shows the caliber of " tradesman " you are dealing with.
Click to expand...
I used to wire service stations for a living. The practice was to leave the conduits that come up in the hole under a dispenser short. After the island was poured the the conduits were extended, using a coupling and a nipple, up to where the seal needed to be to fit the dispenser. This leaves a coupling exposed above the dirt below the seal. After the dispenser was set, plumbed, and wired, we put sand in the hole to cover up the couplings.

Do you see this example as a poor trade practice?

cf
 
Cold Fusion said:
I used to wire service stations for a living. The practice was to leave the conduits that come up in the hole under a dispenser short. After the island was poured the the conduits were extended, using a coupling and a nipple, up to where the seal needed to be to fit the dispenser. This leaves a coupling exposed above the dirt below the seal. After the dispenser was set, plumbed, and wired, we put sand in the hole to cover up the couplings.

Do you see this example as a poor trade practice?

cf
Click to expand...

cf,

If the coupling was less than 24" to the point of emergence, I'd say it was a violation.
 
benaround said:
cf,

If the coupling was less than 24" to the point of emergence, I'd say it was a violation.
Click to expand...

Okay. But where did that number come from?

I haven't done any service stations since the mid 80s, so I checked a current code (2008) to see what had changed.

501.15.A.4 and 501.15.A.4, Ex2 read as I recall. Help me out here, what part of the NEC am I missing?

cf
 
Sorry for the delay. I have been very busy lately. Here are the pics I finally got loaded. The grade was finished as you see it.
 
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necbuff1 said:
Sorry for the delay. I have been very busy lately. Here are the pics I finally got loaded. The grade was finished as you see it.
Click to expand...

After seeing the pictures, I would argue that this is not a violation.

110.26(A)(3)

I would argue that the refrigeration lines are "other equipment associated with the electrical installation"

I might be making a pretty liberal interpretation of the code text, but that would be my argument if I were flagged for this type of violation.

Even if this is technically a violation of clearances, I would not get overly worked up about it.

In my experience, we usually install the disconnect before the HVAC contractor sets the condenser, and when we return and see the final product, the disconnect ends up behind the condenser, not even close to being "accessible". Oh well
 
Just a thought. If they are allowed to "raise" the grade in order to cover the obstruction, then aren't the units now below grade. Wouldn't that be a violation.
 
The vent pipe from the inside air unit should be free flowing to the air, thats the violation now!

I think the HVAC installer created his own violations those coils have minimum spacing themselves

Other than the fact that the pipe is letting out carbon mionixide, it gives me a headache just thinking about it... :confused:
 
necbuff1 said:
Sorry for the delay. I have been very busy lately. Here are the pics I finally got loaded. The grade was finished as you see it.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but I think by piling up gravel like that makes it more difficult for some to service that panel. I don't see the big deal in the way that it was before someone dumped a wheelbarrow full of stone on it.
 
I believe that there was no real problem and they (a/c guy and Elec) did their best with the little room they had.

Would you still have tagged it without the tee?
 
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