Service Panel Outside

[czars]

A client just purchased a repro hoouse and is fixing it up for use as a rental. The house is old and the service panel is in the kitchen. He wants to upgrade the service and move the service panel out of the kitchen. The problem is that the only logical place to move the panel is to the outside near the service entrance. A junction box can be mounted in the limited space attic above the old service panel with a scuttle hole beneath the hole for access. Extension cables can be run from the junction box to the new service panel. With the new panel outside, the extension cables will have to reach the panel via about 3 feet of conduit on the outside wall between the eve and the panel. is there any way to use NM extension cables or will conductors or cables rated for "wet" be required?

 

[jaylectricity]

OK, so it will be

new breaker panel --> conduit --> LB --> conduit --> splice box in attic?

 

[raider1]

If the conduit is on the exterior of the building then the cables must be listed for use in a damp or wet location depending on where the conduit is installed.

Either way NM cable can't be installed in any conduit on the exterior of a building because it is not permitted to be installed in a damp or wet location. (See 334.12(B)(4) 2008 NEC)

Chris

 

[jaylectricity]

Either way NM cable can't be installed in any conduit on the exterior of a building because it is not permitted to be installed in a damp or wet location. (See 334.12(B)(4) 2008 NEC)

Is it really a damp or wet location if it is sealed in a weather proof conduit system? I realize that it doesn't apply here because the panel itself will present a damp location, but what if you had an LB coming out of the wall on the first floor glued to conduit to another LB going into the wall on the second floor?

Water can't get in there, so it wouldn't be a damp or wet location.

 

[augie47]

Is it really a damp or wet location if it is sealed in a weather proof conduit system? I realize that it doesn't apply here because the panel itself will present a damp location, but what if you had an LB coming out of the wall on the first floor glued to conduit to another LB going into the wall on the second floor?

Water can't get in there, so it wouldn't be a damp or wet location.

300.9 Raceways in Wet Locations Above Grade.
Where raceways are installed in wet locations abovegrade, the interior of these raceways shall be considered to be a wet location. Insulated conductors and cables installed in raceways in wet locations abovegrade shall comply with 310.8(C).

334.12....................................................................................... Types NM and NMS cables shall not be used under the following conditions or in the following locations:
(1) Where exposed to corrosive fumes or vapors
(2) Where embedded in masonry, concrete, adobe, fill, or plaster
(3) In a shallow chase in masonry, concrete, or adobe and covered with plaster, adobe, or similar finish
(4) In wet or damp locations

 

[jaylectricity]

300.9 Raceways in Wet Locations Above Grade.
Where raceways are installed in wet locations abovegrade, the interior of these raceways shall be considered to be a wet location. Insulated conductors and cables installed in raceways in wet locations abovegrade shall comply with 310.8(C).

Ah yes, and to think I would find my answer in one article in the NEC! Thanks, though...it makes sense.

 

[infinity]

If you're already mounting a JB in the attic why not just pull in some THWN in the conduit?

 

[raider1]

If you're already mounting a JB in the attic why not just pull in some THWN in the conduit?

Agreed.

Chris

 

[220/221]

Either way NM cable can't be installed in any conduit on the exterior of a building because it is not permitted to be installed in a damp or wet location. (See 334.12(B)(4) 2008 NEC)

Never say never.

In my observation it is a regional thing.

The key words defining wet/damp location are "not normally exposed to dampness/wetness"

My definition of normal is "regularly".

We get 7" of rain annually here and conduit outdoors is not normally exposed to dampness/wetness and is routinely used to sleeve NM from the outdoor service to the interior of the building.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

and derating would apply

 

[LarryFine]

Water can't get in there, so it wouldn't be a damp or wet location.

Inside a conduit or other raceway is not a location. If the conduit is in a wet location, so are the conductors within.

Besides, if you've ever run underground conduit, you would know there's no such thing as truly watertight conduit.