Box Outlet Grounded With a Neutral

[newt]

I went to a customers house where an electrician ran a jumper wire from the neutral side of an outlet to the ground screw of the box and the ground screw of the outlet. This put the customer in a parallel path for return current. This job was inspected and passed. What recourse does a customer have? The customer was complaining of getting shocked when she plugged into these outlets.

 

[al hildenbrand]

The customer was complaining of getting shocked when she plugged into these outlets.

Well, a lot of the answers to this are going to be driven by the age of the original installation of the branch circuit that supplies that particular receptacle, and the history of the AHJ for the jurisdiction the house is in.

I can hear a lawyer saying, "It depends upon the merits of the situation."

Meanwhile, to save the homeowner from hazard, I suspect that the circuit is ungrounded, hence the cheat, and one must follow 406.3.

 

[LarryFine]

This job was inspected and passed.

If passing means a plug-in tester shows properly wired, then I can see why. It's not legal.

What recourse does a customer have? The customer was complaining of getting shocked when she plugged into these outlets.

I'd start with a photo or two for just-in-case, followed by a call to the offender to offer the opportunity to correct it, and if necessary, a call to the inspector.



Mod Squad disclaimer: My comments are not intended to be construed as factual or legal advice, but merely my opinion.

 

[newt]

How can this install possibly be legal? This job was done a week ago. The electrician changed 2wire plug for a three wire. You should not get shocked from an outlet I dont care if it passed outlet tester test. Nothing in the code allows this. Agree?

 

[mcclary's electrical]

How can this install possibly be legal? This job was done a week ago. The electrician changed 2wire plug for a three wire. You should not get shocked from an outlet I dont care if it passed outlet tester test. Nothing in the code allows this. Agree?

This method would not pass an outlet tester method.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

This method would not pass an outlet tester method.

yes it will pass the typical 3 light tester but is a violation and a hazard

 

[iwire]

This method would not pass an outlet tester method.

I have no idea why not.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

How can this install possibly be legal? This job was done a week ago. The electrician changed 2wire plug for a three wire. You should not get shocked from an outlet I dont care if it passed outlet tester test. Nothing in the code allows this. Agree?

He was a hack not an electrician. He needs turned in and license pulled

 

[newt]

The worst thing about it the electrician came back and said its ok because it passed the plug in tester,was rude and left. I think she should start with inspector.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

The worst thing about it the electrician came back and said its ok because it passed the plug in tester,was rude and left. I think she should start with inspector.

He had his chance to fix. Time to call the inspector. Be sure and document everything and take pictures. If he manages to keep license then something very wrong here.

 

[newt]

I wiil do that thanks for your input. Te whole house was done that way.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I went to a customers house where an electrician ran a jumper wire from the neutral side of an outlet to the ground screw of the box and the ground screw of the outlet. This put the customer in a parallel path for return current. This job was inspected and passed. What recourse does a customer have? The customer was complaining of getting shocked when she plugged into these outlets.

You need to look at other things. Unless there is a problme with the service or branch circuit neutral, the customer should not be getting shocked by this illegal installation. Where there are no problems with the neutral, the only voltage available to drive a shock would be the voltage drop on the neutral between the main bonding jumper and the outlet. This drop should be a few volts at most and would not be felt by most people. There may be a more serious hazard here that needs to be checked out.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

You have a very bad situation here. If the EC is this bad he likeky paid someone off to get a license and can't exspect his help to be any better. I would be going after this hack to make this job legal and then demand a good inspection . What most inspectors do is use a tester with 3 lights but that as you know means very little. There is basically only a few cures here.
1 reinstall non grounded receptacles
2 install gfi breakers (bad idea and costly)
3 install gfci receptacles and label as no equipment ground.Any further down line could run as slaves. This adds to problem in that if wiring is the old 2 wire the boxes likely are steel and too small to fit gfci recetacles.
In short every thing this man did is likely garbage work.
Legally what can be done is best handled by a lawyer.

 

[newt]

The customer only gets a shock on the outside outlet ,drill had a metal case and she was making a paralell path for return current.

 

[al hildenbrand]

The customer only gets a shock on the outside outlet ,drill had a metal case and she was making a parallel path for return current.

Yes, . . .

But, . . .

The metal of the drill that is tied to the receptacle neutral should only have a voltage rise equal to the neutral current multiplied by the resistance of the neutral path back to the ground (earth) reference for the secondary side of the transformer supplying the house.

The return current, from the drill, will take all available paths, and, in this circuit, this woman's body is providing an additional path through earth to the low side of the transformer secondary.

When one does the circuit diagram of the multiple parallel return current paths of this circuit, and approximate the real world resistances, the voltage that should be on the drill body is, at most, a volt or two.

What Don is drawing your attention to, is that, from your description of this women's report of her experience, there is something going on in the neutral path that is increasing the resistance for the current, making the voltage at the drill body higher. There may be a failing splice, an open, something. The neutral "touch", even with current in the neutral, won't "normally" have enough voltage for a perceptible current flow in the body of the "toucher".

 

[chicar]

I recieved a service call from a client that would get shocked when she would touch her microwave and the sink full of dishwater. I knew what the problem was. Hackers do this so the receptical install would pass inspection instead of adding a ground or replacing the wire. This person should not be in the trade. And yes, the shock was intensive

 

[newt]

Thanks guys. She has no probem with voltage just getting shocked but I will check neutral conn. Thanks for all your help.

 

[LarryFine]

Newt, don't be suprised if you find one or more receptacles that actually have the EGC terminal tied to the hot wire. You can't always trust insulation color alone.

Even if everything is wired correctly, polarity-wise anyway, a service neutral problem could still energize every 3-prong-plugged device and enclosure in the house.

I suggest using an extension cord plugged into a known-properly-wired and properly-grounded receptacle, and a solenoid tester, to test each receptacle's three holes against.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I recieved a service call from a client that would get shocked when she would touch her microwave and the sink full of dishwater. I knew what the problem was. Hackers do this so the receptical install would pass inspection instead of adding a ground or replacing the wire. This person should not be in the trade. And yes, the shock was intensive

The bonding of the neutral to the equipment grounding conductor termination point of the receptacle or equipment will not result in an intensive shock unless there are other problems on the system.

 

[newt]

Thats a good idea I will try that thanks again