Bonding of CSST

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Buck Parrish

Buck Parrish

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NC & IN
I thought a new flexible gas line was being developed that did not have the problems csst did.

I just noticed nhfire77 has a thread very similar right below this one as of now, any way.
 
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wbalsam1

wbalsam1

Senior Member
Location
Upper Jay, NY
Buck Parrish said:
I thought a new flexible gas line was being developed that did not have the problems csst did.
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It's my understanding that this newly developed flexible gas piping will be listed differently and not have a designation of Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing.

Buck Parrish said:
I just noticed nhfire77 has a thread very similar right below this one as of now, any way.
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He's from another state. Imagine if all the states would adopt the same standard for bonding CSST. :)
 
wbalsam1

wbalsam1

Senior Member
Location
Upper Jay, NY
Dennis Alwon said:
Counterstrike CSST has been used in this area but I don't trust any of those companies any more so I still bond it. I sleep better at night.
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As far as I can tell, "Counterstike" CSST is still CSST and needs to comply with NY State's amendments when installed in NYS. I copied this off the "Counterstrike" brochure and underlined the areas of interest:

"There are no additional bonding requirements for CounterStrike imposed by the manufacturer's installation instructions. With CounterStrike's improved properties, CounterStrike is to be bonded in accordance with current requirements of the National Electrical Code (NFPA 70), and the National Fuel Gas Code (NFPA 54), and with any local requirements that may be in excess of the national codes. This may result in the avoidance of additional bonding costs which are required for conventional CSST."

So, unless I'm reading it wrong, I do not see relief from the special bonding requirements for Counterstrike CSST in New York State. :)
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Location
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Retired Electrical Contractor
wbalsam1 said:
"There are no additional bonding requirements for CounterStrike imposed by the manufacturer's installation instructions. With CounterStrike's improved properties, CounterStrike is to be bonded in accordance with current requirements of the National Electrical Code (NFPA 70), and the National Fuel Gas Code (NFPA 54), and with any local requirements that may be in excess of the national codes. This may result in the avoidance of additional bonding costs which are required for conventional CSST."

So, unless I'm reading it wrong, I do not see relief from the special bonding requirements for Counterstrike CSST in New York State. :)
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All counterstrike needs is the bonding required by NEC-- EGC will do. I think that is clear to me in the highlighted section and the next section.
 
wbalsam1

wbalsam1

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Location
Upper Jay, NY
Dennis Alwon said:
All counterstrike needs is the bonding required by NEC-- EGC will do. I think that is clear to me in the highlighted section and the next section.
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Here's what NYS requires:
“G2411.2 (310.2) Gas pipe bonding - systems that contain CSST. A gas piping system that contains any corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) shall be electrically continuous and shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system at the point where the gas service enters the building or structure. No portion of the gas piping system shall be used as or considered to be a grounding electrode or a grounding electrode conductor. CSST shall be installed and bonded in accordance with this section G2411.2, and the stricter of: (a) the requirements set forth in the CSST manufacturer’s installation instructions, or (b) the requirements set forth in Sections G2411.2.1, G2411.2.2, G2411.2.3, and G2415.5."
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Retired Electrical Contractor
wbalsam1 said:
Here's what NYS requires:
?G2411.2 (310.2) Gas pipe bonding - systems that contain CSST. A gas piping system that contains any corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) shall be electrically continuous and shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system at the point where the gas service enters the building or structure. No portion of the gas piping system shall be used as or considered to be a grounding electrode or a grounding electrode conductor. CSST shall be installed and bonded in accordance with this section G2411.2, and the stricter of: (a) the requirements set forth in the CSST manufacturer?s installation instructions, or (b) the requirements set forth in Sections G2411.2.1, G2411.2.2, G2411.2.3, and G2415.5."
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That is fine for NYS but the rest of the world does not have to do any special bonding for counterstrike. I am with NYS in their thinking for, as I have said, I still bond counterstrike according to 250.66.

My point is the manufacturer does not require those special bonding provisions
 
LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I've heard several different ways in which CSST is supposed to be bonded. Some say, just a jumper between the service bonding point and the gas supply, which I thought was supposed to be done when the building was built.

I've also heard that each length of CSST is supposed to be bonded around, sorta like flex with an external EGC. But then, if the gas equipment served has an electrical connection, its EGC suffices. Where is "CSST for Dummies?"

What involves me directly is usually a new or updated convenience-store or church type of kitchen, with hood and fire suppression, and a new gas extension using CSST. There may be two to ten feet of iron pipe behind the appliances.

I get notified that I have to bond the CSST, or bond to it, or bond for it, or bond around it. I'm not sure. I've asked for specifics from inspectors, they ask around and get back to me, and what I'm told (which I do) isn't consistent.

Can anyone say it in a sentence or two?
 
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jwjrw

jwjrw

Senior Member
Most plumbers and hvac guys here have went back to running copper gas lines here. We even have to get a rough inspection if any portion of the line will be covered up then a final at jobs end when they run csst.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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Location
Chapel Hill, NC
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Retired Electrical Contractor
A/A Fuel GTX said:
Why do plumbers/HVAC guys use CSST? Because it's cheap. Why is bonding something that you didn't install your problem?
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Do you wire a furnace? Did you install it?
Do you wire a dishwasher? Did you install it?
Do you wire the a/c? Did you install it?

Shall I go on....:)
 
Pierre C Belarge

Pierre C Belarge

Senior Member
Location
Westchester County, New York
wbalsam1 said:
NY State is preparing for a round of public hearings on updating their enhanced family of international codes. One such amendment that appears in the building, residential and fire codes is the one requiring bonding of CSST tubing. Here it is: http://www.dos.state.ny.us/proposed_regs/1220text.html
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Fred,
I took a quick look. It does not seem to be substantially different than what was adopted with the September 25th Emergency bulletin.
 
wbalsam1

wbalsam1

Senior Member
Location
Upper Jay, NY
Pierre C Belarge said:
Fred,
I took a quick look. It does not seem to be substantially different than what was adopted with the September 25th Emergency bulletin.
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That's correct. The emergency adoption will expire on the 23rd of March 2010 so all our public hearings must be completed and the finalized law in place by then. This period of time allows any last-minute concerns to be voiced before final enactment.
 
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