Attention to detail on a service

[Riograndeelectric]

how do you get by using PVC for the nipple between the meter and main Disco?
The meter can would not be bonded to the main?
would not SEU cable be exposed to Physical damage exposed on the surface of the house?

 

[mivey]

how do you get by using PVC for the nipple between the meter and main Disco?
The meter can would not be bonded to the main?
would not SEU cable be exposed to Physical damage exposed on the surface of the house?

Why does the nipple have to provide the bonding?

 

[mivey]

Yes, I understand that but a 1/2" PVC threaded conn. needs a bushing--this I have never done before.

It does not say that. The fitting only has to provide resistance to abrasion, which a finished end may do just fine.

352.46 Bushings. Where a conduit enters a box, fitting, or other enclosure, a bushing or adapter shall be provided to protect the wire from abrasion unless the box, fitting, or enclosure design provides equivalent protection.

FPN: See 300.4(G) for the protection of conductors 4 AWG and larger at bushings.

Only for the larger conductors does protection need to be provided by something with a smoothly rounded surface.

300.5(G) Insulated Fittings. Where raceways contain 4 AWG or larger insulated circuit conductors and these conductors enter a cabinet, box, enclosure, or raceway, the conductors shall be protected by a substantial fitting providing a smoothly rounded insulating surface, unless the conductors are separated from the fitting or raceway by substantial insulating material that is securely fastened in place.

I see one requirement for abrasion protection (rough edges) and the other for protection against weight stress.

 

[Riograndeelectric]

Why does the nipple have to provide the bonding?

not saying the nipple has to provide the bonding,
I did not see a bonding jumper from the meter to the Main disco?
does not the SEU cable need protection form Physical damge where mounted directlly to the outside of the house?

 

[nyhockey]

Are you absolutely positive about the highlighted portion?

Yes. NYC Amendments 338.10(A)
where installed as service enrance conductors, type SE cable shall be enclosed in a threaded metallic raceway.

 

[frankft2000]

If SE cable is not allowed outside on a home, some inspector should go to the Maine/ New Hampshire border and pull the plug on the whole state of Maine because I bet there are at least 500,000 services done like that.

 

[mivey]

not saying the nipple has to provide the bonding,
I did not see a bonding jumper from the meter to the Main disco?

Me neither. It is a dark picture but I doubt it is there.

does not the SEU cable need protection form Physical damge where mounted directlly to the outside of the house?

Does not look in danger to me.

 

[mivey]

I see one requirement for abrasion protection (rough edges) and the other for protection against weight stress.

First, consider a case where RNC & abrasion is covered elsewhere in the code:

312.5(C) Cables. Where cable is used, each cable shall be secured to the cabinet, cutout box, or meter socket enclosure.

Exception: Cables with entirely nonmetallic sheaths shall be permitted to enter the top of a surface-mounted enclosure through one or more nonflexible raceways not less than 450 mm (18 in.) and not more than 3.0 m (10 ft) in length, provided all of the following conditions are met:
(a) Each cable is fastened within 300 mm (12 in.), measured along the sheath, of the outer end of the raceway.
(b) The raceway extends directly above the enclosure and does not penetrate a structural ceiling.
(c) A fitting is provided on each end of the raceway to protect the cable(s) from abrasion and the fittings remain accessible after installation.
(d) The raceway is sealed or plugged at the outer end using approved means so as to prevent access to the enclosure through the raceway.
(e) The cable sheath is continuous through the raceway and extends into the enclosure beyond the fitting not less than 6 mm (1⁄4 in.).
(f) The raceway is fastened at its outer end and at other points in accordance with the applicable article.
(g) Where installed as conduit or tubing, the allowable cable fill does not exceed that permitted for complete conduit or tubing systems by Table 1 of Chapter 9 of this Code and all applicable notes thereto.

Now consider the following response from a NEMA panel (even though it does not completely answer the question): http://www.nema.org/stds/fieldreps/askMikeForister/upload/IAEI_Kentucky_08-11_12_05QA.doc

...
47. It is a common practice to use a piece of 2 or 2.5 inch conduit to sleeve a group of cables entering a panel. Does PVC conduit require no abrasion fittings at each end and what should you use to seal the outer end as required by the code?

Panel Response: Article 312.5(C) allows limited use of this practice. The article requires fittings on each end, terminal adaptors would suffice. The limited use of this method does not include penetrating to outside.

 

[rodneee]

If SE cable is not allowed outside on a home, some inspector should go to the Maine/ New Hampshire border and pull the plug on the whole state of Maine because I bet there are at least 500,000 services done like that.

3 million plus done like that NJ, PA, DEL

 

[Short.Circuit]

I just worked on a job where that putty failed on the SE cable heading into the meterbase. panel was soaked with water for a few years....
water went down the SE cable into the house, into the panel...
the service was done in the early 80s

 

[mivey]

I just worked on a job where that putty failed on the SE cable heading into the meterbase. panel was soaked with water for a few years....
water went down the SE cable into the house, into the panel...
the service was done in the early 80s

Use Presstite Permagum instead

 

[Dennis Alwon]

It does not say that. The fitting only has to provide resistance to abrasion, which a finished end may do just fine.

So who decides if a pvc connector provides resistance to abrasion. If it does not require a bushing then why have this statement at all.

352.46 Bushings. Where a conduit enters a box, fitting, or other enclosure, a bushing or adapter shall be provided to protect the wire from abrasion unless the box, fitting, or enclosure design provides equivalent protection.

FPN: See 300.4(G) for the protection of conductors 4 AWG and larger at bushings.

A bushing or an adapter. The adapter , to me, is the one pictured below. I realize this would not need a bushing but it appears a connector would from the wording.

 

[mivey]

A bushing or an adapter. The adapter , to me, is the one pictured below.

This is also an adapter:

 

[bradleyelectric]

This is also an adapter:

male terminal adapter

 

[fishin' electrician]

Some of the PVC male adapters I've seen are almost as sharp as a good knife. I use the bushings, cheap insurance, and IMO required.

 

[mivey]

...I realize this would not need a bushing but it appears a connector would from the wording.

300.4(G) requires a smoothly rounded surface, 352.46 does not.

So who decides if a pvc connector provides resistance to abrasion.

That is the $64,000 question. I have not found that detail for either type of adapter on the manufacturing sites, NEMA, or UL (does not mean I looked in the right place).

 

[mivey]

Some of the PVC male adapters I've seen are almost as sharp as a good knife. I use the bushings, cheap insurance, and IMO required.

But I, like Dennis, have never done that on a 1/2" PVC connector.

 

[fishin' electrician]

But I, like Dennis, have never done that on a 1/2" PVC connector.

I might not as well, but I can't even remember the last time I used small PVC that didn't terminate in a threaded hub/boss.

 

[peter d]

If SE cable is not allowed outside on a home, some inspector should go to the Maine/ New Hampshire border and pull the plug on the whole state of Maine because I bet there are at least 500,000 services done like that.

I think some people get in a big huff about SEU cable because they've never seen it before and/or it's not allowed in their area. I don't think these same people realize just how common SE cable is in many parts of the country.

 

[Ohmy]

What I don't like on this service is the ground from the SER is bonded to the enclosure instead of with the other grounds so now the entire house is grounded through the enclosure. Maybe its just as affective, but I don't like it.