Safety Team

[puckman]

Our safety Team has eight members on it and each year in January they have some new selections to the teams. My boss who has been on the team was replaced with a work planner type person. It seems to me that a safety team without a electrician on it would be at best deficient without his input. The chief electrician is from my view a team player and doesn't come accross too strong. Anyone have any views on this and am I wrong on my thinking he should be on the team ?

 

[ohmhead]

Well i agree with you yes you need people from the field to know construction or how the work environment really works plus input from other workers who do it everyday to bring up safety issues not just paper cuts or spilling water at the water cooler in the office !

Yes your corrrect in thinking that way sorry office people but its my way of thinking as i work in the field but do at times drink there coffee and eat there donuts during meetings .

I go to office for meetings i like the days when they have bagels with all the toppings !

 

[infinity]

What exactly is a "safety team"? Is this for a township?

 

[puckman]

ROB,

It is an industrial work setting with Mcc rooms, three phase motors for pumps and all types of machinery,boiler rooms, etc. A large amount of electrical equipment that should have the chiefs input on safety as far as the electrical end. If there is an electrical safety concern and its brought up at the monthly meetings who better to address then him. Alot of the safety concerns that come up by employees are directed to the safety man who heads the team.

 

[Don S.]

A Safety Team for an industrial environment would be totally deficient without an electrical representative who has field experience.

 

[infinity]

A Safety Team for an industrial environment would be totally deficient without an electrical representative who has field experience.

I agree.

 

[eric7379]

A Safety Team for an industrial environment would be totally deficient without an electrical representative who has field experience.

I totally agree. But, just because there is a Safety Team that has an electrician as a member does not neccessarily mean that anything will be made more "safe" if an electrical safety issue is brought up.

I am on a Safety Team for the company that I work for. There have been far too many cases in which I have brought up an issue that should be addressed, to only be told that "well, we looked at it and we think it will cost too much money to fix."

Here is a prime example: I have brought up the issue of an arc flash analysis dozens of times in the past. At first, I got the deer-in-the-headlight look from management (and the on-site Environmental Health and Safety manager) because they had absolutely no clue what I was talking about. After I showed them what it was actually about and what it entailed, they became head-cockers (you know the reaction that a dog has when they hear a strange noise? Same reaction!) After countless emails and informal meetings about it, I was told "we looked into it and we decided that we are not going to spend the money that it will take to do an arc-flash analysis. Instead, we will use the task tables of NFPA 70E."

My jaw about hit the floor on that one.

 

[puckman]

Eric , we know the feeling.
When management doesn't understand something they make it out to be a " not important" issue.

 

[zog]

After countless emails and informal meetings about it, I was told "we looked into it and we decided that we are not going to spend the money that it will take to do an arc-flash analysis. Instead, we will use the task tables of NFPA 70E."

My jaw about hit the floor on that one.

Using the tables is an acceptable option, however in order to use the tables your plant needs to do some analysis to see if the tables can be used at your facility. The tables are based on some limiting factors, listed in the notes of the tables. Your plant needs to ensure you do not exceed the max available fault current and clearing times of the OCPD's listed for each type of equipment.

In my experiance most large industrial facilities to not meet the limits of the notes on part of thier system.

I came across the same thing with a client once, they were just going to use the tables and wanted me to train thier staff on proper use, when I questioned the table limits they said I was assuming they did not meet them, I said no you are assuming you do. So I offered to do the calcs to find out if the tables apply for free, on my own time, they delcined the offer and said "If something were to happen, we have a burn center on site" (This was a hospital), my jaw hit the floor. Then they said for me to just tell thier staff in the training the tables were OK to use, I told them to find someone else to lie for them and left.

 

[mivey]

...So I offered to do the calcs to find out if the tables apply for free, on my own time, they delcined the offer and said "If something were to happen, we have a burn center on site" (This was a hospital...

That has got to be one of the stupidest, most irresponsible, inconsiderate things I have ever heard of.

 

[zog]

That has got to be one of the stupidest, most irresponsible, inconsiderate things I have ever heard of.

That was said by the hospitals safety director, I was stunned.

 

[mivey]

That was said by the hospitals safety director, I was stunned.

Maybe he should spend some time working in the burn unit and see what he was advocating.

 

[big john]

"If something were to happen, we have a burn center on site"

I'm not a lawyer, but I think that is the very definition of criminal negligence. I don't advocate violence, but someone like that needs a good solid punch in the jaw.

-John

 

[eric7379]

Using the tables is an acceptable option, however in order to use the tables your plant needs to do some analysis to see if the tables can be used at your facility. The tables are based on some limiting factors, listed in the notes of the tables. Your plant needs to ensure you do not exceed the max available fault current and clearing times of the OCPD's listed for each type of equipment.

I am aware of this and I also relayed the same information to the higher ups. I even showed them specific sections of the NFPA 70E that addressed these issues and they STILL said that they were not going to do it. They did not, do not even want to do a "mini" analysis to see if we even can use the task tables.

 

[zog]

I am aware of this and I also relayed the same information to the higher ups. I even showed them specific sections of the NFPA 70E that addressed these issues and they STILL said that they were not going to do it. They did not, do not even want to do a "mini" analysis to see if we even can use the task tables.

Not sure of your position at your plant but I would put your recommendations in an email with all of the sections of the 70E that apply to your point, seeing it in writing often makes a difference, plus you have it for later if something bad were to happen.