Pool, using romex in accessory building

[Donald R. Velasquez]

Mike Holt, I attended your NEC Up Training at Grand Coulee Dam and know you are an authority on NEC and am requesting your reply to this.

Per NEC 680.21 (A)(4) One Family Dwellings. In the interior of dwelling units
or in the interior of accessory buildings associated with a dwelling, any of the wiring methods recognized in Chapter 3 of this code that comply with the provisions of this section shall be permitted.

I read this to mean that I can use romex in the accessory building that houses the circulation pump and heater, even if the accessory building is about 25' away from the house.

The inspector says I need conduit or type MC Cable.

 

[augie47]

Donald,
Welcome to the Forum
Mr Holt rarely posts here, so we assist each other with answers.

I believe the answer to your question will depend on what utilization equipment the wiring serves.
Interior wiring in dwelling units for pool motors may be installed according to Chapt 3 Methods per 680.21(A)(4)
Wiring to underwater luminaries requires an insulated grounded conductor in a wiring method acceptable in 680.23(F).

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I agree with Gus esp. about the lights. That is one area where nm cable would not be allowed even for switch legs to lights.

Ask the inspector for the appropriate article that will not allow this. The article you sited is quite clear.

Oh yeah, tell the inspector that Mike says his crazy. :grin: Just kidding.

 

[mpd]

what is feeding the accessory building

 

[scwirenut]

the inspector may be implying 334.10(3)

Uses Permitted. Type NM, Type NMC, and Type
NMS cables shall be permitted to be used in the following:
(1) One- and two-family dwellings.
(2) Multifamily dwellings permitted to be of Types III, IV,
and V construction except as prohibited in 334.12.
(3) Other structures permitted to be of Types III, IV, and V
construction except as prohibited in 334.12. Cables
shall be concealed within walls, floors, or ceilings that
provide a thermal barrier of material that has at least a
15-minute finish rating as identified in listings of firerated
assemblies

 

[augie47]

scwirenut has a good point. I got carried away with the pool and Art 680 restrictions as our jurisdiction allows NM in outbuildings which are associated with a residence, but, as he pointed out, the use on NM outside the dwelling unit can certainly be viewed as a violation in 334.10

 

[Donald R. Velasquez]

Donald,
Welcome to the Forum
Mr Holt rarely posts here, so we assist each other with answers.

I believe the answer to your question will depend on what utilization equipment the wiring serves.
Interior wiring in dwelling units for pool motors may be installed according to Chapt 3 Methods per 680.21(A)(4)
Wiring to underwater luminaries requires an insulated grounded conductor in a wiring method acceptable in 680.23(F).

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Hello and Thank All of You for your technical advice on this, but I was
hoping for Mike Holt as I don't think the inspector would second guess Mike,
but please feel free to give me your opinions on this.

1. The pool motor is +/- 9 Amp, 240 Volt feeding from 15 Amp GFI CB to a
two pole Time Switch to a two pole HP rated Disconnect Switch and 12/3
SJO Cord to the Motor. All wired in Romex. Inspector says the Cord is OKAY..

2. The pool Heater is Natural Gas feeding from a SP 15 Amp CB, also in Romex. All wiring inside the building will be insulated and covered.

3. Underwater Luminary is 1" PVC from the luminary to the Power Panel and
has a UL Factory 50' SO Cord, Light Switch is protected by a GFCI feeding
one Duplex Receptacle. This will be changed per the inspector's wishes.

4. The Electrical Power Panel is 100 Amp MLO, cables in PVC feeding from a Subpanel located in the house. Inspector says this is okay...

5. The pool is above ground, 4' deep @ shallow end and 6'deep @ deep end, the walls are made of Pressure Treated Plywood. Rolled Foam was glued over
the plywood, installed to protect the factory made Plastic Pool Liner.
The liner is attached to the plywood using factory 1/4" X 1" Metal "F" Channel
strips (Bead Liner Retainer) which are made specifically for this purpose.
The 1/4" part of the Bead Liner Retainer is exposed metal and has a thick paint finish simular to an auto finish. This Bead Liner Retainer will be covered
for damage protection but the inspector wants each section grounded anyway. I told him this can not be accomplished without damaging the Pool Liner and I informed him that I would not ground the Bead Liner.

Please give your opinions.

Thank You
Donald R. Velasquez
Utah Master Electrician
Washington Master Electrician
Oregon General Supervising Electrician
Wyoming Electrical Journeyman
ICBO Certified Electrical Inspector

 

[suemarkp]

You'll most likely have to battle the inspector yourself with the code book. Open it up and ask him why he finds you non compliant in the relevant sections. He must start first by citing the section you violated.

1. I think as long as you use #12 NM cable for #1 (EGC must be #12 or larger), you're fine per the words in 680.21(A)(4).

2. I don't see any restrictions on the wiring methods for pool heaters.

5. This is a tough one -- code is 680.26(B)(5) and gives an exception for isolated metal pieces. How long are those F strips? Can you meet all the details of 680.26(B)(5) to avoid bonding them?

 

[augie47]

here, pool light would definitely need attention (listed j box, insulated equipment ground, etc.)
is the pump located inside or outside and is is cord & plug or just cord.
I don't see anythimng that would excuse you from meeting 680.26 for the bonding and equipotential grid.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I think the inspector will win. The ground must be insulated. Bonding will be required. Not his problem how or what it cost. While it might be a pain it just might save a life. Paint is not a substitute for bonding. Read all of 680 about 5 times, it is not easy to follow.

 

[augie47]

just to open a door for you. With the 6 ft depth, it can not be classified as a "storable pool" unless it meets this part of the definition: " or a pool with nonmetallic, molded polymeric walls or inflatable fabric walls regardless of dimension.".
I would not know what one of those was if it bit me, but it might be worth persuing in your situation.

 

[stjohnbarleycorn]

is that light a low voltage LED?

 

[Donald R. Velasquez]

just to open a door for you. With the 6 ft depth, it can not be classified as a "storable pool" unless it meets this part of the definition: " or a pool with nonmetallic, molded polymeric walls or inflatable fabric walls regardless of dimension.". I would not know what one of those was if it bit me, but it might be worth persuing in your situation.

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This is classified as an above ground pool and thus did not need a permit for
the pool but did need a permit for the 4' wide deck surrounding the 16' X 32'
and is only 2' below ground at the deep end. The pool walls are nonmetallic Pressure Treated Plywood and could not be attached to the deck.
I did purchase permits for the electrical and mechanical. The mechanical included the plumbing ie; skimmer, drains, returns, sand filter, heater and
venting and passed the first time. We did use the pool last summer and everything works great, just need to finish the fencing around the pool.

 

[augie47]

classifed as "above ground" by whom ?
read the NEC definition in regard to depth of over 4 ft.

 

[Donald R. Velasquez]

classifed as "above ground" by whom ?
read the NEC definition in regard to depth of over 4 ft.

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Classified "above ground" by the State of Oregon Building Codes Division.
I tried to get a permit but was told I did not need one for the pool but did need one for the deck surrounding the pool.

 

[Donald R. Velasquez]

is that light a low voltage LED?

No, is 120 Volt