Spark Simulator

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inspector 102

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Northern Indiana
Trying to set up a simulator for the fire department to create amn arcing circuit. Would like to set it up to be manually controlled from a control room and go off during search and rescue drills. Will be located inside a permanent training facility, trying to add to the realistic situations firefighter might encounter during initial attack, before utilities are shut down. Any thought how this might safely be accomplished?
 
How large do you want the sparks to be and just how safe (would people be directly exposed)?

Maybe a Van de Graaff Generator?
 
inspector 102 said:
Trying to set up a simulator for the fire department to create amn arcing circuit. Would like to set it up to be manually controlled from a control room and go off during search and rescue drills. Will be located inside a permanent training facility, trying to add to the realistic situations firefighter might encounter during initial attack, before utilities are shut down. Any thought how this might safely be accomplished?
Click to expand...

Safely it might be accomplished using a 52" screen and a virtual reality presentation video.
 
The intent would be to simulate an arcing residential branch circuit. Would be more for the WOW factor. No actual interaction by particiapants. Have considered something behind plexiglass shield, controlled by switch in monitoring room. Would consider just a dead short and let an overcurrent device do its job. Still thinking it through.
 
When Cutler Hammer 1st came out with their AFCI breakers years ago, our rep had a demonstration display that he took around to different supply houses.

It had a cord that he plugged into a wall socket for power.
It had a small loadcenter with an AFCI breaker.
It fed a knife-type swith that had a blade on it.
He would place a short piece of NM into the bladed knife swith and lower the blade onto the NM.
Then press the blade into the NM until the AFCI breaker would trip.
None of this was shielded in any way, and he wore no gloves or safety glasses.

I do not recommend this display method.
 
What you need is a pyrotechnic effect, specifically the Le Maitre "Robotic".

Consult your local (licenced?) pyrotechnician.

Alternatively you can get spark generators; if you've toured Universal Studios in Florida you'll have seen them several times over. They esentially use a welding transformer, a fan, and wire off a reel. It was patented, and fairly expensive, but a someone handy with tools can knock something similar up in a few hours.
 
I think that simulating the arc is probably much safer/simpler than actually creating an arc.

You need to generate sound and you need the light. Simulate an arc inside a box so that you don't need to show an arc itself, but just the light flashing out of cracks in the box. Play the correct sound through a speaker, and also use the amp to drive some white and blue LEDs so that they flicker and flash in time with the sound.

The video that mike suggested is also a great approach. Probably a small display mounted on the wall in the trianing house.

If you actually want a real arc, and can arrange suitable protection, then the simplest approach is to use something similar to an oil burner ignition transformer. These are designed to reliably produce high enough voltage to cause an arc, and then to suitably current limit in order to maintain the arc. But you would need serious protection here; we are talking about 15KV for a small device.

-Jon
 
ty said:
When Cutler Hammer 1st came out with their AFCI breakers years ago, our rep had a demonstration display that he took around to different supply houses.

It had a cord that he plugged into a wall socket for power.
It had a small loadcenter with an AFCI breaker.
It fed a knife-type swith that had a blade on it.
He would place a short piece of NM into the bladed knife swith and lower the blade onto the NM.
Then press the blade into the NM until the AFCI breaker would trip.
None of this was shielded in any way, and he wore no gloves or safety glasses.

I do not recommend this display method.
Click to expand...

I attended a continuing ed class for one of my licenses, where the instructor had a set up like that, but his was a piece of sharpened steel hinged on a bolt, with electrical tape on the "handle":roll:, and he was using zip cord instead of NM. He was trying to prove that the Arc Fault breaker did not work. The regular breaker he had ahead of the arc fault breaker generally would trip before the Arc fault.
 
You could use one of those hand held "zappers", they make a good spark are fairly loud

cost about $70.00, run on 9vdc batteries and have an on/off switch that could be altered

for remote use. They are safe enough to hold in your hand.
 
Not to put a "wet blanket" on the idea, but except for the service entry shorting, how much of a "spark" would one really see in a residential situation? There really isn't that much fault current available, is there? If you are looking for what a service entry short looks like, then I don't think the suggestions are really going to get that effect - a big bang and/or lots of smoke and fire.

That said, I don't have any experience with going into a burning house and seeing what the electrical system does, so I could be completely off base here! :)
 
winnie said:
I think that simulating the arc is probably much safer/simpler than actually creating an arc.

You need to generate sound and you need the light. Simulate an arc inside a box so that you don't need to show an arc itself, but just the light flashing out of cracks in the box. Play the correct sound through a speaker, and also use the amp to drive some white and blue LEDs so that they flicker and flash in time with the sound.
-Jon
Click to expand...
This is probably the safest and smartest way to go.
 
Want a nice big flash without allot of current, try steel wool, fine grade #00 pull it apart to make it less dense, place it in a plastic type outlet box, and install a receptacle in it, with overly stripped out wires to make contact with the steel wool feeding the receptacle, just make sure the whole set up is in something fire proof, and sealed to prevent sparks from reaching any flammables or persons.;)
 
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Well i dont think i can post my stuff its kinda lots of memory space but check out superconduits on u tube thats my stuff its a hobbie i like making lighting in glass globes check it out and i can help you with your sparks if your interested .

I also make large tesla coils ill post them if you like but i think you need just a small arc or spark to show its effects in your example hers some small stuff for fun.
 
ty said:
When Cutler Hammer 1st came out with their AFCI breakers years ago, our rep had a demonstration display that he took around to different supply houses.

It had a cord that he plugged into a wall socket for power.
It had a small loadcenter with an AFCI breaker.
It fed a knife-type swith that had a blade on it.
He would place a short piece of NM into the bladed knife swith and lower the blade onto the NM.
Then press the blade into the NM until the AFCI breaker would trip.
None of this was shielded in any way, and he wore no gloves or safety glasses.

I do not recommend this display method.
Click to expand...

If he had of substituted a gfi breaker the results of the test would have been the same or quicker.....:roll:
 
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