Horse Barns, Again

[jmellc]

I see several horse barn threads that were closed. I looked at a couple today and wrestle with whether to even do them. Owner's family has wired the barns over the years. Relatively neat work in one, lots of junk in other. Both largely done with NM, probably not NMC. No existing lights are vapor/dust tight. No existing receptacles are GFCI. After reading 547, I'm not sure I should touch the job. She says the pea gravel they have on dirt floors keeps dust minimal. Maybe true, I didn't see large dust buildup in crevices around conduits and boxes. She also says very little hay is kept there. EMT in several locations, I don't see it as approved in 547.5. I need another look for any concrete pads, etc. I didn't see any. I think all the exterior siding is wood, some metal roofing.

I'm thinking UF cable along top rails, PVC drops to PVC boxes for recepts, with GFI 1st in line. Are flip covers ok for this app, or should they be bubble covers?

Also, concrete pads for pump house and sewage pump out from 1 barn. I guess these pads have to be bonded to earth for equipotential? Do they have to bond to each other also?

Can I get feedback from those of you who have recently done horse barns? I'm concerned that permit/inspection will bring up existing conditions she will be required to address, and of course I'll be the bad guy. Owner also wants to keep costs minimal but needs it finished yesterday. As I read 547, vapor/dust tight lights are required, sealed conduits for temperature.

Sorry I'm so scattered on this. Thanks for any feedback.

 

[ceb58]

I see several horse barn threads that were closed. I looked at a couple today and wrestle with whether to even do them. Owner's family has wired the barns over the years. Relatively neat work in one, lots of junk in other. Both largely done with NM, probably not NMC. No existing lights are vapor/dust tight. No existing receptacles are GFCI. After reading 547, I'm not sure I should touch the job. She says the pea gravel they have on dirt floors keeps dust minimal. Maybe true, I didn't see large dust buildup in crevices around conduits and boxes. She also says very little hay is kept there. EMT in several locations, I don't see it as approved in 547.5. I need another look for any concrete pads, etc. I didn't see any. I think all the exterior siding is wood, some metal roofing.

I'm thinking UF cable along top rails, PVC drops to PVC boxes for recepts, with GFI 1st in line. Are flip covers ok for this app, or should they be bubble covers?

Also, concrete pads for pump house and sewage pump out from 1 barn. I guess these pads have to be bonded to earth for equipotential? Do they have to bond to each other also?

Can I get feedback from those of you who have recently done horse barns? I'm concerned that permit/inspection will bring up existing conditions she will be required to address, and of course I'll be the bad guy. Owner also wants to keep costs minimal but needs it finished yesterday. As I read 547, vapor/dust tight lights are required, sealed conduits for temperature.

Sorry I'm so scattered on this. Thanks for any feedback.

Art 547.5 says other approved raceways If you look at 358.12 it doesn't exclude this application. As far as the dust it doesnt matter what she said or what you saw as far as dust. It is what 547 says about dust for rep. switches and luminaries. I have always used the flip covers for the recpt. and switches (unless it was in a wash down area) to keep out dust.
The most important thing to remember with horse people is make sure you can get your money. When they want to keep cost down AND want it yesterday they some times forget to pay you today.

 

[augie47]

You might want to look at this current thread also:
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=119494

I have not found a real consensus of opinions on the "best" method.
In areas not exposed to livestock or damage I've seen a fair amount of UF.
PVC is common, but not in an area where the horses can reach it.
547 doesn't address EMT, but I've seen it used and accepted it as it is listed in 502 Part II which is referenced in 547.5(A), but I would clear it with your AHJ before using it as, to me, that wording is tricky.
In most of the "family" barns I have not found the metallic equipment that the equipotential bonding in 547.10 addresses.
The local supply house carry an inexpensive ($10) fixture with a globe that is similar to a vapor-proof but mounts to a standard octagon box and those are used a lot for lighting.

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

I'm thinking UF cable along top rails, PVC drops to PVC boxes for recepts, with GFI 1st in line.

I've used this method with great results. Flip covers work out fine.

Also, concrete pads for pump house and sewage pump out from 1 barn. I guess these pads have to be bonded to earth for equipotential? Do they have to bond to each other also?

I've always wondered how an existing slab can be tied into an equipotential grid. This would also apply to placing a hot tub on an existing slab. Maybe someone can enlighten us

 

[ty]

as far as the flip covers go, are these for standars, 'general use receptacles', or are they for water bucket heaters?

If for the water buckets, I would use bubble covers. The plugs are always plugged in.

 

[ty]

The local supply house carry an inexpensive ($10) fixture with a globe that is similar to a vapor-proof but mounts to a standard octagon box and those are used a lot for lighting.

Do they have a guard too?
That's pretty cheap.
The one's I have found like that do not come with screws that work with w/p octagon boxes, so you need to buy different screws.

 

[rt66electric]

Mice chew through Uf

Mice chew through Uf

All methods work well depending on conditions?? I have have a few problems with mice chewing through the uf cable that was ran along the upper walls/rails.

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

All methods work well depending on conditions?? I have have a few problems with mice chewing through the uf cable that was ran along the upper walls/rails.

Read the exception to 547.5 (A). Where exposed cabling is used, at least three cats must be present

 

[jmellc]

I've used this method with great results. Flip covers work out fine.



I've always wondered how an existing slab can be tied into an equipotential grid. This would also apply to placing a hot tub on an existing slab. Maybe someone can enlighten us

I wonder about drilling a 2 inch hole through a pad, drive a ground rod, ground to it and fill hole back with patching concrete. Do it 6 feet apart with 2 rods, as with a house?

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

Maybe......but how about a mechanical lug, lag bolted or thunder nailed to the slab? I really don't know what would be acceptable here. I feel like I'm guessing and I don't like that.

 

[jmellc]

Maybe......but how about a mechanical lug, lag bolted or thunder nailed to the slab? I really don't know what would be acceptable here. I feel like I'm guessing and I don't like that.

I need to keep reading, but so far, I don't see a lot of detail on methods. I'm watching for a class on this, or a good video. Something is probably already out there, I just haven't seen it.

 

[RETRAINDAILY]

If the receptacle is dedicated for a piece of equipment I would use a in-use cover but GP receptacle a flip cover.

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

I need to keep reading, but so far, I don't see a lot of detail on methods. I'm watching for a class on this, or a good video. Something is probably already out there, I just haven't seen it.

If you get any more info on this, please let me know.

 

[tom baker]

NMC is a product that would be appropriate for barns. Its it available and has anyone used it?

 

[Buck Parrish]

I have bid on about 5-6 horse barns in the last couple of years. By the time I tell them what is the right way to do it. I get thw feeling they think I am trying to inflate the price or something.
The ones I did get. And inspected. It was like art work , AHHHH I felt good and so did the customer.

I will tell you, we had a big horse barn near here burn and killed horses, uninsured!.

Also I went to give a lady whom had just inherited an 80 stall horse barn with all the amenities.
While I was their the owner and I seen flames shooting from a smaller barn of hers.
So I stood at the end of the road for two hours and directed the fire trucks to this threee alarm fire.
Wheww, she needed no furhter convincing, and we got the job

 

[jmellc]

I appreciate the feedback, keep it coming. I like to check things out as much as possible. I did a little stuff in barns with a former boss but nothing as involved as this.

1 problem we all see is that the layman doesn't understand codes and odds of what may or may not happen, specially if they've had jerryrigged stuff that worked fine for years and just needs to be replaced because of age. But almost anyone understands that if something goes wrong, he's not to blame, we are; "well, I didn't want you to do anything unsafe".