face down panel

[jimport]

On a HI site someone asked about a panel mounted face down between the joists. The ceiling height is 6'-7". I thought 240.33 and 240.81 would both prohibit this install, but some there disagree.

Is there a direct site against this install?

 

[charlie b]

240.81 would not prohibit it, so long as the breaker handles have clear "On" and "Off" markings. 240.33 does prohibit it, however, unless putting the panel in a vertical position is "impracticable." That word means "not capable of being done, not feasible." So if there is a vertical wall nearby, and if there is room on that wall, I would say that a vertical install is practicable, and from that fact I conclude that a horizontal install would violate 240.33.

 

[petersonra]

240.81 would not prohibit it, so long as the breaker handles have clear "On" and "Off" markings. 240.33 does prohibit it, however, unless putting the panel in a vertical position is "impracticable." That word means "not capable of being done, not feasible." So if there is a vertical wall nearby, and if there is room on that wall, I would say that a vertical install is practicable, and from that fact I conclude that a horizontal install would violate 240.33.

240.33 Vertical Position. Enclosures for overcurrent devices
shall be mounted in a vertical position unless that is
shown to be impracticable. Circuit breaker enclosures shall be
permitted to be installed horizontally where the circuit breaker
is installed in accordance with 240.81.

It seems to me a good argument can be made that the second sentence of 240.33 actually permits such an install. I think you can also make a good argument that in context, it was not the intent of the writers to allow horizontal installations except in very rare cases. I am not sure intent is enforceable though.

Generally speaking a specific permission overrides a general prohibition, and this appears to be such a case.

 

[jimport]

I always took horizontal to mean the long sides of the panel were parallel to the ground, ie rotated 90.

 

[Hendrix]

I always took horizontal to mean the long sides of the panel were parallel to the ground, ie rotated 90.

I think that's the way it was intended.

 

[charlie b]

It seems to me a good argument can be made that the second sentence of 240.33 actually permits such an install.

Why do you suppose that near the end of the second sentence the word "breaker" is singular? I read that as refering to an enclosure that houses a single circuit breaker, not a 42-circuit panel.

Regarding the context of the two sentences, I read it as follows: Sentence one says you can do something only in certain (rare) circumstances. Sentence two says that in those (rare) circumstances in which sentence one has allowed the install, then here is an additional requirement.

 

[chris kennedy]

How does one apply 110.26(A)(3) to this install? Which way is 'above'?:roll:

 

[jxofaltrds]

It is 'assumed' that one (a person) would be in an upright (standing) position.

Not on your back or standing on your head.

So the install is 'perpendicular' not vertical or horizontal.

Not approved.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

It is 'assumed' that one (a person) would be in an upright (standing) position.

Not on your back or standing on your head.

So the install is 'perpendicular' not vertical or horizontal.

Not approved.

Care to go to court with ASSUME ?
And in todays world the best way to make money is sue the state and county.

 

[Josh5879]

Why do you suppose that near the end of the second sentence the word "breaker" is singular? I read that as refering to an enclosure that houses a single circuit breaker, not a 42-circuit panel.

Regarding the context of the two sentences, I read it as follows: Sentence one says you can do something only in certain (rare) circumstances. Sentence two says that in those (rare) circumstances in which sentence one has allowed the install, then here is an additional requirement.

That's an interesting way to read the section, I really wonder what the intent actually was.
If you do read it your way it's coming only to remind you of some pretty unrelated rule, it's like by the way just don't forget 240.81.
It's not that much better to read it not like you but still better, it would be saying the following, as long as you follow 240.81 we'll let you mount the enclosure horizontally.