GFI's on AFCI circuits

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circus12

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Okay. Here we go again the old AFCI and GFI question. We have a disagreement going around here concerning the following scenario. All have agreed to abide by this forum. Here is the situation. Residential wiring. Garden Style Apts. 1,2 and 3 bedroom units. Units have sliders in the living room going out to an exterior patio at ground level. Code requires a GFI outlet on the patio. 2008 NEC also requires AFCI for lights/recpts in living room. If the required GFI outlet is placed as the last device of the AFCI circuit would the proper operation of either the AFCI or GFI device be compromised. We cannot find any reference to this in the NEC that says this cannot be done. Others are saying that the patio recpt must be placed on either another GFI circuit or its own home run. Since the devices sense different types of faults it is my personal opinion that all would work just fine at the end of the circuit. As this project contains approx. 540 units a separate GFI circuit could get expensive as everyone is aware. Your opinions, please.
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
Putting a GFCI receptacle on an AFCI-protected circuit is 1. not a Code violation and 2. will function properly and safely if installed correctly.
 
mcclary's electrical

mcclary's electrical

Senior Member
Location
VA
The GFI, no matter where you put it in this circuit, will not affect the operation on the AFCI in any way. Secondly, the GFI will not be affected in any way by being fed from an AFCI circuit. Both protection devices will operate independantly of each other, and without interference.
 
jaylectricity

jaylectricity

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Occupation
licensed journeyman electrician
It doesn't have to be the last receptacle on the circuit. You can feed thru a GFI receptacle without protecting receptacles down stream.
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
macmikeman said:
Romex cable used in a dwelling + slight damage to sheath from hammer hit+ combination ark fault circuit breaker= sleep well, or at least you know where the problem most likely is if the breaker starts tripping.....
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Romex cable used in a dwelling + slight damage to sheath from hammer hit + megger = sleep well forever.
 
Chamuit

Chamuit

Grumpy Old Man
Location
Texas
Occupation
Electrician
The AFI breaker will "protect" the wires up to the GFI receptacle and anything plugged in to it from arc-faults.

The GFI receptacle will "protect" the device plugged into it from ground faults.

They aren't mutually exclusive.

I have done this several times. I'm guessing with the 2008 becoming more widely accepted/adopted there will be more opportunity for this combo to occur.
 
jaylectricity

jaylectricity

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Occupation
licensed journeyman electrician
mcclary's electrical said:
How ? Please 'splain
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Every GFI I've installed has a two holes for wires on each terminal screw. Without using pigtails you can hook up a feed in and feed out on the line side, and two load outs through the load side.

8_DSC06507.jpg
 
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macmikeman

Senior Member
Location
Planet macmikeman
jaylectricity said:
Every GFI I've installed has a two holes for wires on each terminal screw. Without using pigtails you can hook up a feed in and feed out on the line side, and two load outs through the load side.]
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Technically - for the both line side conductors thats not feeding "thru" the gfi device, that is landing both conductors in the same terminal set and bypassing the gfi circuit with both line conductors. The load side conductors are getting "fed" thru the gfi.....
 
jaylectricity

jaylectricity

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Occupation
licensed journeyman electrician
macmikeman said:
Technically - for the both line side conductors thats not feeding "thru" the gfi device, that is landing both conductors in the same terminal set and bypassing the gfi circuit with both line conductors. The load side conductors are getting "fed" thru the gfi.....
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Well I didn't realize I was being called out on semantics.
 
LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
macmikeman said:
Technically - for the both line side conductors thats not feeding "thru" the gfi device, that is landing both conductors in the same terminal set and bypassing the gfi circuit with both line conductors.
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Thus my response in post #9. :cool:
 
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