Illegal Electrical Work

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brother

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Location
"I have learned, in whatsoever STATE I am, therewi
What do you think of this article? What does your area do about illegal electrical work ??

http://www.lni.wa.gov/TradesLicensing/Electrical/files/currents/elc1003.pdf



 Fighting the Underground Economy

Operating outside the requirements for licensing, certification, and permitting is very tempting to some individuals and contractors working in today?s economy. The underground economy and companies attempting to operate with an unfair competitive advantage take work away from legitimate contractors and individual electricians who take pride in their work and the electrical industry.

L&I is actively doing everything possible to reduce these impacts. As a result our electrical inspectors? efforts, assisted by the E-CORE team, we have had another successful year working proactively with the industry and combating companies and individuals not playing by the rules.

For the 2009, calendar year the electrical program issued 9,114 electrical violations. 70% or about 6,400 were issued for unlicensed contracting, uncertified electricians, doing work with no permit, or a related issue. All these violations are considered to be a part of the underground economy.

No matter what you do, inspector, contractor, electrician, regulator, or citizen, we encourage you to do your part in reducing the negative effects of the people who choose to violate the electrical laws and compete unfairly and in many cases unsafely with the legitimate electrical industry. We welcome your referrals about this type of unfair and illegal activity. If you know or suspect this type of violation, we encourage you to notify your local L&I electrical inspection office or a member of our compliance investigative team. Contact numbers for our offices can be found at http://www.lni.wa.gov/Main/ContactInfo/OfficeLocations/default.asp or you can call the investigative team at (360) 902-5249.

Please do your part by helping provide a level competitive environment for legitimate contractors so they can provide safe electrical installations for their customers.
 
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rwreuter

Senior Member
washington state is where i was originally licensed at, tough state.


side bar.....gotta love the new 48 hours of CEU's....the reason...to make better electricians (to make poorer electricians, those classes are expensive) wasn't too bad for me though when i worked there, the company i worked for (MCE, Meridian Center Electric) usually paid for the classes.
 
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shepelec

Senior Member
Location
Palmer, MA
I hear this complaint from guys in the town I work for. They tell me "how come these guys get away with this?" I tell them "I can be every where, you have my cell number, drop the dime."

For some reason, and I'm not generalizing here, a 1/4 of people I have found to be unlicensed seem to be off duty fire fighters. Has anybody else noticed this?:confused:
 
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brother

Senior Member
Location
"I have learned, in whatsoever STATE I am, therewi
shepelec said:
I hear this complaint from guys in the town I work for. They tell me "how come these guys get away with this?" I tell them "I can be every where, you have my cell number, drop the dime."

For some reason, and I'm not generalizing here, a 1/4 of people I have found to be unlicensed seem to be off duty fire fighters. Has anybody else noticed this?:confused:
Click to expand...

Off Duty fire fighters??? Thats hard to believe. Does their boss hear about that?? Do they not make enough money as a Fire Fighter??
 
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LawnGuyLandSparky

Senior Member
shepelec said:
I hear this complaint from guys in the town I work for. They tell me "how come these guys get away with this?" I tell them "I can be every where, you have my cell number, drop the dime."

For some reason, and I'm not generalizing here, a 1/4 of people I have found to be unlicensed seem to be off duty fire fighters. Has anybody else noticed this?:confused:
Click to expand...

NYC firefighters work 3 days on, then off 5. Many are contractors on the side, many legit too.
 
cschmid

cschmid

Senior Member
Location
Northern cold country
I have mentioned several areas that do illegal electrical work and they get away with it constantly..go ahead turn them in homeowner says he did it..the worse the economy gets the more we will see..the ones I get a kick out of is the ones who write the rules there own do not abide by them. Government agencies are so broke they will not spend the money to provide training or any extras as they do not have it..just like the private sector doing illegal work because there is no money..It all revolves around cash my friends and it drives the car..
 
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petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
As most of you know, I am somewhat ambivalent about permitting government to decide who can make a living doing what and then enforcing that decision via the use of force. That is after all what the basic issue is.

Anytime government is involved in deciding things, it is a good bet that most of the decisions are being made to benefit people who are making campaign contributions to the right politicians.

That does not mean there are not collateral benefits to the rest of us, but its usually not why the decisions are made.

There will always be people trying to make a buck by skirting what they are allowed by government to do, and there will always be people who want to use the services of those kind of providers. Its just part of the way things are, and the economic mess we are in right now has probably exacerbated that situation.

I am not real sure there is any evidence to support the contention being implied here that unlicensed work is inherently unsafe work. There are plenty of examples of work done by licensed people that turned out to be unsafe, and a fair number of places without any permitting process at all where there is no rash of electrical fires or electrocutions.

Its not real hard to understand the attraction of bypassing a third party (government) that is perceived as unnecessary when getting some minor electrical work done. My guess is that third party adds 25-50% to the cost of smaller projects without much in the way of perceived benefit to the guy paying the bills. Add to that the ongoing and permanent additional cost of increased real estate taxes that inevitably results from the permitting process, (not to mention the inherent invasion of privacy the permitting process involves) and you can see there is a lot of incentive to bypass government in the contracting process.
 
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mcclary's electrical

mcclary's electrical

Senior Member
Location
VA
Around here, they don't do much to combat it.
A homeowner pulls a permit and says they are doing the work.
They then can hire unlicensed contractors. I already konw,,,,,going in, that if the homeowner already has the permit, I'm not gonna get the job. Her neighbr can do it muchcheaper. Especially once he's seen your bid. It happens constantly in VA. On top of that, some epople just don't pull permits at all. How can you compete with somebody that has no insurance, no wrokmans comp, no tradesman license, no contractors license, no business license, no work vehicle, and already has a full time job, so he can do this for peanuts on the weekend.
 
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bphgravity

Senior Member
Location
Florida
I think Thomas Paine summed it up best in his work, Common Sense, way back in 1776:

Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its
best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable
one; for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries BY A
GOVERNMENT, which we might expect in a country WITHOUT GOVERNMENT,
our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by
which we suffer. Government, like dress, is the badge of lost
innocence; the palaces of kings are built on the ruins of the bowers
of paradise. For were the impulses of conscience clear, uniform, and
irresistibly obeyed, man would need no other lawgiver; but that not
being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his
property to furnish means for the protection of the rest; and this he
is induced to do by the same prudence which in every other case
advises him out of two evils to choose the least. WHEREFORE,
security being the true design and end of government, it unanswerably
follows that whatever FORM thereof appears most likely to ensure it
to us, with the least expence and greatest benefit, is preferable to
all others.
Click to expand...

I personally witnessed the damage and harm unlicensed activity could bring down on a community in the year following Hurricane Charley here is SW Florida. I believe those who lived through Hurricane Andrew and Katrina have experienced the same.

The day to day occurances of unlicensed activity may not be of such great risk to society, but it can if not at least moderated.
 
cschmid

cschmid

Senior Member
Location
Northern cold country
the ND floods have also contributed to The misery of people because of unlicensed people doing work they should not of been doing..So natural disasters also bring out the vultures. But I do not believe that the guy who works full time and helps a buddy can hardly be called a part time business after work..If you work full time and contract for cash on the side they are very small jobs normally as the time is a constraint. It is the other trades that are willing to do your job that hurts..
 
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petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
weressl said:
If we address the issue of illegal immigrants first, we have a good chance of taking a large bite out of the problem and that would address all other unlicensed work too.
Click to expand...

Probably at least partially true, but that's an inherently political problem that both of the major political parties are afraid of.
 
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CopperTone

Senior Member
Location
MetroWest, MA
I say we sign up all the illegal immigrants in this country that are here already. Have an amnesty year. Come forward - we welcome you with open arms. Give them green cards - get them all on the books - collect taxes from them. That is the first step to equaling out the wage disparity.

I'm not trying to get political but that certainly is a solition to undocumented cheap labor. Level the playing field so to speak.

Every one of us or our relatives used to be immigrants.
 
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