2 family

[Hendrix]

There is a two family apt. building that has a common heating system and common hallway lights. This is a very old building and the landlord does not want to add a "house panel". Instead, he said that he will adjust the tenants rent acordingly, and if either tennant moves out, he will inform the POCO to send the bill to him and not remove the meter.
comments please

 

[Dennis Alwon]

How would you satisfy 210.25

210.25 Branch Circuits in Buildings with More Than One Occupancy.
(A) Dwelling Unit Branch Circuits. Branch circuits in each dwelling unit shall supply only loads within that dwelling unit or loads associated only with that dwelling unit.
(B) Common Area Branch Circuits. Branch circuits required for the purpose of lighting, central alarm, signal, communications, or other needs for public or common areas of a two-family dwelling, a multifamily dwelling, or a multi-occupancy building shall not be supplied from equipment that supplies an individual dwelling unit or tenant space.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

There is a two family apt. building that has a common heating system and common hallway lights. This is a very old building and the landlord does not want to add a "house panel". Instead, he said that he will adjust the tenants rent acordingly, and if either tennant moves out, he will inform the POCO to send the bill to him and not remove the meter.
comments please

I "do not want" to do a lot of things, like, keep my lawn mowed to lower than 4" in height, but that does not mean that I am in compliance.

A 3rd meter is a lot cheaper than a lawyer if one tenant ever figures out that there is no way a LL could possibly accurately "adjust the rent accordingly."

 

[Hendrix]

I "do not want" to do a lot of things, like, keep my lawn mowed to lower than 4" in height, but that does not mean that I am in compliance.

A 3rd meter is a lot cheaper than a lawyer if one tenant ever figures out that there is no way a LL could possibly accurately "adjust the rent accordingly."

I concur completely, but there is another inspector involved who dosen't see it the way I do.

 

[eprice]

What has happened to bring this building under consideration? Is there some work being done there? Has anything changed regarding the use of the building? Was it a single family dwelling and it is being divided into two?

 

[Hendrix]

What has happened to bring this building under consideration? Is there some work being done there? Has anything changed regarding the use of the building? Was it a single family dwelling and it is being divided into two?

Tennant complaint about paying for furnace power while the other tennant slides.

 

[e57]

Funny - I'm going throught the same type of thing in this thread.... But where as this is single ownership and a single property it is slightly different. He CAN have all of the common areas on his metering, (even the other unit too) and have all the OCP for common areas in an area accessible only to him, in a seperate panel outside of his dwelling. BUT he can not have the OCP for the tenant area not accessible to them... Or have any part of the common areas on the tenant metering.

If he figures he can send a bill to the POCO - let him figure out how well that works on his own.... And when his tenants figure out that they pay for common areas he may get some mixed signals from a lawyer some day. Sounds like it already has....

 

[LarryFine]

There is a two family apt. building that has a common heating system and common hallway lights.

Who is paying to power that stuff?

 

[e57]

Sounds like one - or a combination of tenants????

Tennant complaint about paying for furnace power while the other tennant slides.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Often, a 2-family residence is designed and permitted only for for the owner and a tenant, not an outside investor to purchase and lease out both units to two separate tenants.

 

[brother]

I would like to know what has caused this to come under the requirment of this NEW NEC requirement. I know in our area, if there was a major remodel then you would have to bring it to current code, (I emphasize major). If its not major then it is grandfathered.

I know of a duplex that was remodeled in 1995 before the NEC required that new panel, and it has been grandfathered. Are you sure this is not the case here?? What work are you doing there?? rewiring a furnance??

 

[Hendrix]

Who is paying to power that stuff?

one of the tennants is paying for it. There lies the problem. I have been told that the code is "proactive", not "reactive" and I should maybe leave it alone

 

[eprice]

Tennant complaint about paying for furnace power while the other tennant slides.

Well, in that case, without a change of use or new work to invoke current codes and considering the fact that this is, as you say, an "old building" my guess is that this is not a code issue. I think it is a matter to be resolved between the tenant and the owner. There might be some state renters rights laws that would have something to say about it, but as electrical inspectors, it is not our job to enforce those.

 

[Volta]

How would you satisfy 210.25

By not doing any work on those circuits since 1983 or so .

The oldest reference I can find quickly is:

Branch circuits in dwelling units shall not be connected to serve more than one dwelling unit.

This is more than one dwelling unit - this/these circuit(s) serve a dwelling unit and a common hallway.

1987 brought an exception to allow such for central alarm, signal, communications, or similar functions. I don't see heating or lighting fitting that scope.

 

[jaylectricity]

I "do not want" to do a lot of things, like, keep my lawn mowed to lower than 4" in height, but that does not mean that I am in compliance.

Who is requiring you to keep your yard mowed?

Is that why you live in Lawn Guy Land?

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Who is requiring you to keep your yard mowed?

Is that why you live in Lawn Guy Land?

Love the hair... hope it wins!

My point is... or was, LL's often do not want to spend one cent more than they feel in necessary.

On an aside, my brother lived in a 2-family house in NY, and the LL placed the basement sump pump and laundry (which he had no access to) on his panel, unbeknownst to him. The 1st floor tenant was the LL wife's sister... pure unadulterated white trash... The sump pump discharge hose ruptured and began a continuious pumping cycle noted only when a 350.00 electric bill (up from about $95.00) The LL's wife's sister said "Oh yea I saw that, but I knew it wasn't on MY meter so I couldn't care less..."

In this case, the home was a "mother/daughter" not a true 2-family home, and the law required owner occupancy, not the ability to collect 2 rentals from one house. This was the only reason the LL was not able to secure a judgement against my brother for not paying the rent in total for 9 months while he deducted the cost of the excess electrical use due to the LL not having a house meter.