200a service on pedistal

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Hendrix

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I have a homeowner who installed a pedistal with a 200a disconnect about 20' from his house. He ran 3, 4/0 conductors. He wasn't going to get a permit until the po-co told him that he needed an inspection. This guy is about 150 years old :D and the house was built by his relatives in 1750. He is an old yankee who doesn't believe in the establishment. He even put an addition on the house recently with no building permit and it turns out it is too close to the road and doesn't meet the set back requirements.
Anyway, when I told him that he needed a GEC run with the grounded and ungrounded conductors, he almost had a heart attack, and exclaimed "It took me all day to get the three wires in the pipe, I ain't gonna try to get another one in there". Soooooo he came up with the idea of running a grounding electrode in a separate piece of pvc.
I just wondered if any of you inspectors would allow this. I looked at 300.3(B) and 310.4 but trying to explain this to him is crazy. What would you do :confused:
 
First off what edition of the NEC is in effect?

Under the 2005 NEC and earlier editions, 250.32(B) permitted a person to not run an EGC with a feeder to a detached building and to use the grounded conductor to bond the detached structure.

Also remember that we are talking about an equipment grounding conductor being run from the service pedestal to the home not a GEC. There should be a grounding electrode installed at the service pedestal and another grounding electrode system installed at the home.

Chris
 
raider1 said:
First off what edition of the NEC is in effect?

Under the 2005 NEC and earlier editions, 250.32(B) permitted a person to not run an EGC with a feeder to a detached building and to use the grounded conductor to bond the detached structure.

Also remember that we are talking about an equipment grounding conductor being run from the service pedestal to the home not a GEC. There should be a grounding electrode installed at the service pedestal and another grounding electrode system installed at the home.

Chris
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I agree chris, with no other metallic paths, and on 05', the old mans install is legal.
 
raider1 said:
First off what edition of the NEC is in effect?

Under the 2005 NEC and earlier editions, 250.32(B) permitted a person to not run an EGC with a feeder to a detached building and to use the grounded conductor to bond the detached structure.

Also remember that we are talking about an equipment grounding conductor being run from the service pedestal to the home not a GEC. There should be a grounding electrode installed at the service pedestal and another grounding electrode system installed at the home.

Chris
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sorry for the stupid question here, but what really is the difference? are they not both hooked up in the panel the same in the home? ie floating neutral?
 
rwreuter said:
sorry for the stupid question here, but what really is the difference? are they not both hooked up in the panel the same in the home? ie floating neutral?
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A grounding electrode conductor is used to connect the grounded neutral conductor to the grounding electrode system.

An equipment grounding conductor is used to provide the low impedance fault current path back to the source to facilitate the operation of an overcurrent protective device in a ground fault.

Chris
 
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this is what i am thinking of. infact, this is my situation exactly and from the sounds of it, it is the same situation this old geezer is in.
 
In your diagram notice that the neutral bar in the "sub-panel" is NOT bonded to the can and the grounding electrode at the sub panel is connected to just the equipment grounding bar.

The equipment grounding conductor between the service and the sub panel is providing the fault current path for any ground fault in the sub panel back to the service and though the main bonding jumper at the service then back to the utility.

Chris
 
Hendrix said:
I just wondered if any of you inspectors would allow this.
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In Colorado, they have specifically excluded this scenario from the action taken in the '08 NEC. As long as no other circuits can physically be added to a service disconnect on a pole, or I think in a pedestal, then we are permitted to skip the EGC for a single feeder to a residence.

I would talk to the AHJ, and get special permission, it's not worth the effort IMO.
 
Hendrix said:
This is what he needs to do but can he do it in two pieces of pvc ?
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mcclary's electrical said:
no,,,,,,not legally
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Hendrix said:
what are we looking at for a referance?
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mcclary's electrical said:
250.32 (b) 1. 1st sentence
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I don't have a 250.32(B)(1) in my 2008, but I don't think that's the issue with the two raceways. The two raceways could be seen as a violation of 300.3(B).

I think trying to talk the inspector into allowing the exception to 250.32(B) to be used is better than burying a separate EGC.
 
George Stolz said:
I don't have a 250.32(B)(1) in my 2008, but I don't think that's the issue with the two raceways. The two raceways could be seen as a violation of 300.3(B).

I think trying to talk the inspector into allowing the exception to 250.32(B) to be used is better than burying a separate EGC.
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Sorry, I forgot he said 08' 250. 32 (b) (1) is in 05' and plainly state the EGC SHALL BE RAN WITH THE SUPPLY CONDUCTORS. The service and post are one structure, the mobile home is the second.


Although I agree,,,,your article is the correct one to use in this situation
 
George Stolz said:
In Colorado, they have specifically excluded this scenario from the action taken in the '08 NEC. As long as no other circuits can physically be added to a service disconnect on a pole, or I think in a pedestal, then we are permitted to skip the EGC for a single feeder to a residence.

I would talk to the AHJ, and get special permission, it's not worth the effort IMO.
Click to expand...


WOW!!!! an AHJ that had and used common senese.
 
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