Counter overhang Island or penisula.

[russ]

I'll bet I probably have inspected three dozen or more Island or peninsula receptacles that were under over hangs greater than 6 inches. I've seen Receptacles moved, counter trimed down, some even remade.
The same old thing happened this week on a kitchen remodel.
The counter maker asked if he could dill a hole so the cord could be plugged into the receptacle without over hanging the counter.
After debating it in my head for three seconds, I thought this is probably less dangerous than a cord hanging over the edge of any legal, under 6" over hang.
So I approved it. Do you think I'll go to electrical inspectors Hell for doing it?

 

[jxofaltrds]

IMHO if you deem it to be safe you should be allowed, with your BO permission, to approve the installation.
Many times on this forum we recommend asking the AHJ. Since you are the AHJ go for it.

Does your state have anything like this?

From Res. Code. (IRC based)

"101.3 Intent.
1. Performance.
1.3. The technical feasibility of the residential building code;"
(101.3.1.1.3)

"101.4 Reasonable application.

The rules of the board and proceedings shall be liberally construed in order to promote its purpose. When the residential building official finds that the proposed design is a reasonable interpretation of the provisions of this code, it shall be approved. Materials, equipment and devices approved by the building official pursuant to Section 116 shall be constructed and installed in accordance with such approval."

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

While your intentions are good what you have done is opened a can of worms for all inspectors in your town. I do think it is far safer but it does not comply with what NEC asked for. Perhaps a code change could be in order. Or no reason your town could not write it's own ammendment.

 

[jxofaltrds]

While your intentions are good what you have done is opened a can of worms for all inspectors in your town. I do think it is far safer but it does not comply with what NEC asked for. Perhaps a code change could be in order. Or no reason your town could not write it's own ammendment.

Jim

I basically agree with you but I think inspectors should be allowed to use good judgement in the field.

If it is possible to meet the code then yes you must conform. If the design requires a judgement call then I want an inspector to be able to make that call.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Jim

I basically agree with you but I think inspectors should be allowed to use good judgement in the field.

If it is possible to meet the code then yes you must conform. If the design requires a judgement call then I want an inspector to be able to make that call.

There is nothing in NEC that leaves this up to the inspector. I did residential for over 20 years and many islands. There is always a way to comply. Not always easy or great looking but can be done. Hand the problem to the one that created the problem. We simply must get it thru to cabinet designers that they need to consider codes.

 

[raider1]

I'll bet I probably have inspected three dozen or more Island or peninsula receptacles that were under over hangs greater than 6 inches. I've seen Receptacles moved, counter trimed down, some even remade.
The same old thing happened this week on a kitchen remodel.
The counter maker asked if he could dill a hole so the cord could be plugged into the receptacle without over hanging the counter.
After debating it in my head for three seconds, I thought this is probably less dangerous than a cord hanging over the edge of any legal, under 6" over hang.
So I approved it. Do you think I'll go to electrical inspectors Hell for doing it?

I would not have approved drilling a hole in the counter top instead of a properly placed receptacle.

First problem with a hole, how big is big enough?

I agree with Jim, this is not your problem to fix, the installer must comply with the NEC and as an inspector your job is to verify that the installation meets the code.

Chris

 

[charlie b]

Do you think I'll go to electrical inspectors Hell for doing it?

No. But you are going to get a visit from Phil, the Prince of Insufficient Light, and he will darn you to Heck!

My concern is that a hole with a cord sticking through it will create a pinch point. If I need space on a countertop, I will just slide the cutting board or the toaster or whatever out of the way. That could cause the cord to be pinched and damaged, or worse.

 

[russ]

Counter overhang Island or penisula.

Some valid points given.
We have just adopted the IRC, to go with our existing Chicago code. There is no state code.
As far as other inspectors, I'm it for electrical. We have a few times called in a neighboring towns inspector to cover for me if I was off for vacation. As for the size of the hole, it will be 2" with a removable cover with hole for a cord (like you see on desk tops). This peninsula is totally separate from the kitchen counters, its more like a divide between the kitchen and the living room. Not that this means much code wise.
A code change might be in order, I like that idea. The building commissioner didn't have a problem with the approval of this hole ,maybe I'll ask for the change

 

[cowboyjwc]

For a minute there I almost thought that Jim was backing the inspector and my heart skipped a beat.:grin:

I do agree with him though, not your problem to fix, it's a bad design issue. I've had ones where the whole back wall was window that went all the way down to the counter and my answer was, buy a shorter window and build a back splash, problem solved.:roll:

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

It will be far faster to have local ammendments to allow this. But be careful, i am sure the code panel gave this thought already and see issues,some of as mentioned. Should anything bad happen out of this you have set the town up to be sued. Often what looks like a smart fix creates other problems. What stops someone from placing an electric skilit over this hole and then melting the cord. In a few rare cases i have installed receptacles under that top so that i comply. Might not be what customer wants but my job is to comply with NEC. Customer can do what ever they like after i pass and am gone.

 

[jumper]

For a minute there I almost thought that Jim was backing the inspector and my heart skipped a beat.:grin:

I do agree with him though, not your problem to fix, it's a bad design issue. I've had ones where the whole back wall was window that went all the way down to the counter and my answer was, buy a shorter window and build a back splash, problem solved.:roll:

Last one I did, it was a kitchen counter against chimney. Carpenters installed counter and did not tell me ahead if time. I had them reinstall a new backsplash 3.5 wide with a an opening for a box and a channel for the wire. Was it bulky and ugly, yes. Oh well.

 

[mpd]

a receptacle located below a counter top that extends more than 6" beyond its support base is a violation and should have failed, no exception

 

[Cavie]

No. But you are going to get a visit from Phil, the Prince of Insufficient Light, and he will darn you to Heck!

My concern is that a hole with a cord sticking through it will create a pinch point. If I need space on a countertop, I will just slide the cutting board or the toaster or whatever out of the way. That could cause the cord to be pinched and damaged, or worse.

And a hole in an office desk top that comes with factory furniture is not a problem and would not cause a "pinch point". I have seen this done and approved it. A cord hanging over the edge of an island counter top is NOT safe with small children and dogs. Been there done that. Sometime you just gotta use common sence in spite of the code. I can't tell someone to drill a hole but if they sugest it I say go for it.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

And a hole in an office desk top that comes with factory furniture is not a problem and would not cause a "pinch point". I have seen this done and approved it. A cord hanging over the edge of an island counter top is NOT safe with small children and dogs. Been there done that. Sometime you just gotta use common sence in spite of the code. I can't tell someone to drill a hole but if they sugest it I say go for it.

Not the same issue at all. The desk does not require a receptacle. The counter top island does. Now if they have the required outlet located in compliance with NEC and add a hole that is not illegal. Fixing to redo our counter tops and yes i will likely drill a hole on each side but will still keep them to comply without holes. I do agree as the code stands it creates a hazard. NEC is still the law even when it is stupid.

 

[yucan2]

Oftentimes I've had an inspector(s) that were far too rigid, (not one iota of common sense). Now comes "one" with some flexibilty and the consensus is, he's not rigid enough.

ya gotta luv it. :-?

 

[charlie b]

And a hole in an office desk top that comes with factory furniture is not a problem and would not cause a "pinch point".

In my desk, that hole is behind the monitors, and in the corner. So there is no way for me to inadventently slide a book or other object into it. Not the same situation, for a kitchen countertop.

 

[electricmanscott]

I'll bet I probably have inspected three dozen or more Island or peninsula receptacles that were under over hangs greater than 6 inches. I've seen Receptacles moved, counter trimed down, some even remade.
The same old thing happened this week on a kitchen remodel.
The counter maker asked if he could dill a hole so the cord could be plugged into the receptacle without over hanging the counter.
After debating it in my head for three seconds, I thought this is probably less dangerous than a cord hanging over the edge of any legal, under 6" over hang.
So I approved it. Do you think I'll go to electrical inspectors Hell for doing it?

I applaud you for using common sense and having the nads to make a decision based on reason rather than fear.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

a receptacle located below a counter top that extends more than 6" beyond its support base is a violation and should have failed, no exception

code ref please???:-?

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

I see this quite often........An island with 3 sides of 12" overhang and the side without the overhang is a wall of cabinets/drawers. How does one legally deal with this situation short of some kind of pop up receptacle cut into the counter surface?

 

[charlie b]

code ref please???

210.52(c)(5)