Sprinkler system well pump

[Hoyt]

Good day,

I have an existing hospital with an emergency generator nameplate rating of 75 KW and 260 amps. Monthly test show a peak of 210 amps recorded via facilities. 1 ATS with no separation of life safety, critical, equipment. 1 EM distribution panel that feeds everything. 1970 construction.

The Hospital has been forced to add a sprinkler system per the State. No domestic water available. The intent is to install a well with a 40 HP well pump, this pump will need back up power. (It is not a fire pump)

It appears as if the 40 HP will not fit on the existing generator system. So we need to either replace the existing 75KW (they also have expansion plans and a low budget) or provide a dedicated emergency generator just for the well system.

Facilities stated to me that if we replace the 75 KW with a 125 KW they do not have to provide additional transfer switches, separate branches of power, and address the existing emergency system.

Has anyone heard this before, I have not? Certianly does not sound correct.

In general if we replace the 75 KW unit would we be required to bring the existing emergency system up to current code? Or can I replace the generator, provide 1 new equipment branch ATS and back feed the old ATS without separating the existing loads, etc.?

 

[gadfly56]

No Fire Pump??

No Fire Pump??

Slightly off-topic, but how are they not putting in a fire pump? NFPA 13 requires a "dependable" source, and without the fire pump and controller (and possibly a jockey pump as well) I don't see how this can fly. Unless they have a really impressive flow rate at the well, it also doesn't seem likely they can meet hydraulic demand without installing a storage tank.

 

[charlie b]

The NEC does not have a ?Grandfather Clause.? The closest thing to such a clause has been moved to the annex, so it is not enforceable. So this will really boil down to a call by the local authority having jurisdiction.

If I were making the call, I would not even need to hear about the new generator. As soon as you speak of adding a large motor to the existing generator load, I would ask how you planned to keep it separate from the existing life safety branch. In other words, I would require you to separate the three branches, including adding two transfer switches, before I would allow you to install the new motor.

Ain?t cha glad dat I ain?t yur hinspectir?

 

[Hoyt]

Gadfly56.... I completely agree! and I have questioned them on it again. They stated to me something about having domestic water fed of the system they do not need to meet NFPA 20, I read the definition of a "Fire Pump" in NFPA 13 and that seems to be what we have. I am waiting for a response.

Charlie... I was thinking that was what will happen. I have contacted the state for a ruling.

I don't want to touch the existing system if I don't have to, any issues with not touching the existing generator and adding a second generator just for the pump? I guess I first need to get a "Final" word on if it is a "Fire Pump" or not.

 

[OTT2]

Good day,


Facilities stated to me that if we replace the 75 KW with a 125 KW they do not have to provide additional transfer switches, separate branches of power, and address the existing emergency system.

Has anyone heard this before, I have not? Certianly does not sound correct.

In general if we replace the 75 KW unit would we be required to bring the existing emergency system up to current code? Or can I replace the generator, provide 1 new equipment branch ATS and back feed the old ATS without separating the existing loads, etc.?

If the load is less than 150KVA then one transfer switch is permitted, 517.30(B)(4). I can't see that this "well pump" as complying with those loads permitted on the Life Safety, Critical Branch, or the Equipment Branch [unless you go the "Other selected equipment" from 517.34 (B)(8)]

I don't see how this is not a Fire Pump.

700.9(B)(5) does allow for this type of supply with proper separation. But when I look at 695.3(B)(2) is see that the generator has to be able to shed "optional loads". The essential system is harldy optional.

Is there a engineer involved in this?
If not, I don't think I would touch this.

Good Luck