When is an elevator required to be on a Generator back-up in a building?

[gngren]

Not sure if this is the correct spot to ask so mods please move if necessary.

Can anybody tell me or point me in the right direction to find what the requirements are for when an elevator must be put onto a back-up generator? The issue I am having is in a 6 story condo building. The builder changed the size of the elevator and the 100KW generator will not start the 60HP motor, it was originally supposed to be a 40HP, but they "Got a deal".

So I need to know if I can just take the elevator off of the Generator and have the elevator contractor put in a recall unit only? I have also been throwing the idea of a capacitor bank on the elevator motor so that it will hit when it starts up, and the generator can then run it.

Any help or ideas would be greatly appriciated. This is in Washington DC by the way, 3phase 208V

 

[rcarroll]

I don't see that elevators are required to be on a generator system, unless the building specs require it. Check out 620.91

 

[charlie b]

This is not an area I know well at all. But I think the building codes will require it. That building is tall enough to be classified a "high rise." So the elevators will be part of the life safety plan for evacuation (other than for a fire, of course). That puts them at least into the "legally required standby," if not "emergency" classification.

 

[raider1]

Elevators that are part of the Accessible means of egress are required to be supplied with legally required standby power.

Elevators are not allowed to be on the emergency system in accordance with the building codes, they are required to be on the legally required standby system.

Chris

 

[eprice]

If a building has a floor four or more stories above the ground level and that floor is required to be handicap accessible, then at least one elevator is required to have standby power. This is from the IBC (Section 1007.2.1 in the 2006). In a condo building, if the required number of handicap accessible units are provided on lower floors, the upper floors may not be required to be handicap accessible. The answer to your question would need to come from the building department.

 

[eprice]

Reading further in Section 1107 of the IBC, it is my opinion that since elevator service is provided to the building, all floors of your condo building that contain dwelling units are required to be handicap accessible, and since some of those floors are four our more stories above the ground floor, at least one elevator is required to have standby power. But I would suggest that you check with the building department to see what their interpretation is.

 

[dcspector]

If a building has a floor four or more stories above the ground level and that floor is required to be handicap accessible, then at least one elevator is required to have standby power. This is from the IBC (Section 1007.2.1 in the 2006). In a condo building, if the required number of handicap accessible units are provided on lower floors, the upper floors may not be required to be handicap accessible. The answer to your question would need to come from the building department.

That is the answer here in DC. "Thanks for posting eprice"

 

[dbuckley]

I have also been throwing the idea of a capacitor bank on the elevator motor so that it will hit when it starts up, and the generator can then run it.

As they say: "Good luck with that" - I dont think a bank of caps of any sort of human acceptable size will help much, if at all - insufficient energy storage.

You need either a softer start, if the Elevator techs can give it you. Or a bigger genset, or a rotary UPS. You could pick up the phone and call Pillar, who will be able to make this work, but a bigger genset will be cheaper. Maybe the same guy that "got the deal" on the elevator could help you out and "get a deal" with a genset...?

 

[cschmid]

the specs where for a 40 hp not the "he got a deal" and you sized it according to the plan, the contractor who bought the 60 hp is responsible to provide the 40hp or pays the overages for the increase to handle the 60hp. you problem but not your cost issue as you did not buy the elevator.

 

[gngren]

Thanks for the info!!

Thanks for the info!!

Thanks for all the info. I am getting paid to fix it not worried about that. I just want to get it to work. The problem with a bigger gen is I would have to try and fly it over the building from the front, no access in the back. Can't get a bigger gas line in to feed it as they went bare minimum on the gas line size (1" line), also gas comes from the front street and would cut the heck out of the building to get it to the back. We've been throwing the idea of upping the voltage on the generator to 480 and setting a transformer to step it back down to 208. At this point though we told the builder to have his engineer come up with a plan. We've given them the ideas to work with.

 

[RB1]

I have gotten differing opinions from ICC on this issue. Interpretations of the 2003 IBC considered the level of exit discharge to be exclusive of the first floor and therefore applicable to four story buildings. I have since gotten an opinion that the level of exit discharge is included in the first floor, thus the minimum threshold is five stories (hence the change of the title of the section in the 2006 IBC). I don't know what stage of construction your in, but you may consider a horizontal exit on the fifth and sixth floors.

 

[eprice]

I don't know what stage of construction your in, but you may consider a horizontal exit on the fifth and sixth floors.

Now that is an angle that I had never thought about before. After looking at this quickly though, I am of the opinion that the horizontal exit wouldn't remove the requirement for the standby powered elevator. My reasoning goes this way: 1024.1 requires the exits to discharge directly to the exterior of the building. Reading through 1022, I see a horizontal exit as consisting of a separation and a refuge area. The last paragraph of 1022.1 addresses the exits required from the area into which a horizontal exit leads. We don't require exits from an exit discharge. Based on all of this, I think once we pass through the horizontal exit separation, we are in the exit, but we have not reached the exit discharge until we exit the building, just as we can enter a vertical exit enclosure, but not reach the exit discharge until we exit the building. So, the way I see it, using a horizontal exit changes the level at which we enter the exit, but not the level of the exit discharge. 1007.2.1 is not based on the level of the exit, but rather, the level of the exit discharge.

 

[eprice]

Just to clarify, my references in the above post are from the 2006 IBC.

 

[RB1]

I think the horizontal exit in combination with the sprinkler system that is required by the exception provides an equivalent degree of safety. Similar to the compartmentalization in a hospital.