Electronics?

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Boognish

Boognish

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How often does a construction or industrial electrician have to deal with electronics? I am taking a class in it now and I am not learning a thing. There is no text book for reference and the instructor lets us cruise by ( he gives us the answers ). I obviusly need to find a way to study this material in a way in which I will learn or go to a different school. So, how much of electronics do you actually encounter in the field?
 
Electronics are magic and we electricians do no more than hook up to the positive [+], negative [-] and ground.
Actually there are a limited number of electronic parts: resistors, capacitors [total mystery], diodes [easy = one way gates], transistors [many types] and ICs [integrated circuits which combine a lot of things above].
Trouble shooting involves a careful inspection to detect open or shorted trace or obviously burnt out element. Otherwise you have to test the most likely elements. Resistors have to decrease the current a certain fraction. Capacitors should conduct AC voltage but not DC.
Diodes should conduct only one way.
Transistors are more difficult but can be considered to be some form of two diodes connected together or something like that.
For ICs, you have to replace the whole thing with a Radio Shack equivalent.
~Peter
 
You could probably get by without knowing anything at all about anything at all if that's how you want to live your life.

Although there is a bit of truth to what Peter has posted. Many times you ARE only dealing with the terminals. IMO the more you know about everything, the better off you are... makes your working life easier, and more importantly, much more interesting.

Additionally, I don't know exactly what is considered electronics. Are PLC's electronics? VFD's? There are a bunch of parameters to program in a VFD or a motor drive that have to do with physics more than electronics or electricity. Almost everything has some sort of computer control anymore. Do you want to be the guy pulling the wire or the guy programming the PLC? There was a thread recently where the OP wanted to know the difference between a sink and a source. That's not a difficult concept... unless you don't know it. Is that electronics?

Do you want to know what you would read with a multimeter set on voltage on the terminals of a solid state relay? You might want to know what to expect on the terminals of a heat controller... How much current to expect if one of a few paralleled heating elements was open.I would think calculating voltage drop would be electronics.

I think the line between electronics, electricity, and physics is blurred and in some areas doesn't even exist.

I think you should know electronics.... I guess it depends what how you see yourself and what you want to do.
 
Boognish said:
How often does a construction or industrial electrician have to deal with electronics? I am taking a class in it now and I am not learning a thing. There is no text book for reference and the instructor lets us cruise by ( he gives us the answers ). I obviusly need to find a way to study this material in a way in which I will learn or go to a different school. So, how much of electronics do you actually encounter in the field?
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construction electrician-you will not have to deal with it as you should/will be under some direct/indirect form of engineers supervision.
industrial electrician-if you have the proper training and prove your ability in the field, you will run into electronics/power electronics; however, in most cases you will still be under engineers supervision.
service electrician-you will run into it most of the time unless it is primarily residential, and depending on what calibre of company, your level of expertise determines what calls you get....not to mention your pay and levels of security.
my recommendation is learn and educate as much as possible. not to mention it seems to keep me interested, and that sure does help.:)
 
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Yes, it will be worth your time to learn some elementary electronics. If for no other reason than to expand your mind. You say that you are not learning anything in class. I recommend you visit a free site called All About Circuits. Here is a link: http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/

Volumn 3 & 4 should be of interest. Maybe this could serve as the textbook.
Your textbook at least. Find the section that covers what you are supposed to be learning in class & go from there.

I have handled an SCR heavy enough to be used as a dumb bell by a weight lifter. Not all solid state componets are microscopic. It is good to look at a circuit board and be able to recognize the componets on it.
 
Boognish said:
How often does a construction or industrial electrician have to deal with electronics? I am taking a class in it now and I am not learning a thing. There is no text book for reference and the instructor lets us cruise by ( he gives us the answers ). I obviusly need to find a way to study this material in a way in which I will learn or go to a different school. So, how much of electronics do you actually encounter in the field?
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It depends on the job, some jobs you can skate by without any electronics knowledge, some will require it. No matter what your job is understanding electronics and the theory will make you better at your job.

Personally I would never hire someone without a strong theory background and I think your instructor should find a new line of work.
 
zog said:
It depends on the job, some jobs you can skate by without any electronics knowledge, some will require it. No matter what your job is understanding electronics and the theory will make you better at your job.

Personally I would never hire someone without a strong theory background and I think your instructor should find a new line of work.
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I agree with Zog. Understanding theory is essential, IMHO.
 
realolman said:
I think the line between electronics, electricity, and physics is blurred and in some areas doesn't even exist.
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My oldest brother, a physics major who worked in the electronics arena during his army days, once told me this:
If you can fix it with a screw driver, it is electrical. If you need a soldering iron, it is electronic.
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I heard once that it boiled down to electricians working mostly on the left side of a decimal point and electronic techs working mostly on the right side. ;)

Roger
 
roger said:
I heard once that it boiled down to electricians working mostly on the left side of a decimal point and electronic techs working mostly on the right side. ;)

Roger
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But there is electronics and electronics.
If you have a 6,600kW variable speed drive you are not altogether likely to be concerned about the right hand digits.
:)
 
NO text book for an electronics class?? My basic electronics class was one book, split into two semesters to cover everything. If you are paying good money for this education, it seems you are getting short changed. I think I would complain to some higher authorities within the system about the quality of this "education", at least from this class.

To answer your main question: YES. The more you learn, the more you earn. Knowledge is power.
 
No electronics text? No Pythagorean Theorem?
Just like auto mechanics have become, someday electricians will have to become electronics whizzes.
 
i might be late on this thread but i am a student at neit for electrical technology and im almost done with my degree , we learned a good amount about electronics because to understand how things work , such as sensors , variable frequency drives and plc's work its good to have a pretty solid undertstanding of how some solid state devices work , and we only touched the basics like diodes , triacs , transistors , and others but i think its pretty good to know.
 
Boognish said:
How often does a construction rarely or industrial electrician not real often have to deal with electronics?
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You will more often deal with combinations of electronic components. Think of them as a black box that does something.

Once in a blue moon you will deal with a resistor (maybe terminating a communications line) or a capacitor (e.g.-adding a bypass capacitor for noise reduction), but it's not real common for electricians to have to do all that much with them as components. It's not as if you are going to be doing board level repair even. You will rip out one board and replace it with the spare. That's the way repairs are done these days, mostly.
 
petersonra said:
You will more often deal with combinations of electronic components. Think of them as a black box that does something.

Once in a blue moon you will deal with a resistor (maybe terminating a communications line) or a capacitor (e.g.-adding a bypass capacitor for noise reduction), but it's not real common for electricians to have to do all that much with them as components. It's not as if you are going to be doing board level repair even. You will rip out one board and replace it with the spare. That's the way repairs are done these days, mostly.
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I won't really argue with that, and I find that it is really difficult to explain, but I feel that I view everything I do through different eyes than I would without any elecrtronic knowlege, and I feel that it definately makes a positive difference with everything I do... even if it has nothing to do with electricity or electronics .I think it affects your paradigm at least, and your practical results every day...

You don't have to know math to use a calculator, either, but I think you will find it helpful to know how to manipulate an algebraic formula, .

I think if you don'[]t want to know everything about everything, you should do something else... maybe bag groceries.:)
 
100512-2220 EST

Boognish:

If you work in an industrial plant and just want to change light bulbs, pull wires, play cards, and drink coffee, then you don't really need to know anything about electronics or other subjects related to your plant.

How does a straingage transducer work to measure force or torque? With what voltage levels are you concerned in this application? How does the speed of a permanent magnetic brush type DC motor relate to the applied armature voltage? What methods can you use to measure the current to this motor? How does an LVDT work? What is the output impedance of an NPN transistor with a collector resistance of 5.6 k ohms? Why is aTTL output better? How does an operational amplifier work and what can you do with it? What is a constant current source and its limitations? How can you make one? In the AC position what does a Simpson 260 meter read? If you measured a sine wave source with the Simpson how would you calculate the power dissipated in a 100 ohm resistor? Now change the source to white noise and the same question? If you suspect the your AC voltmeter is not calibrated correctly, then how can you use a diode and a known good DC meter to check it? And on-and-on.

.
 
Must be nice to get that training in a nice controlled atmosphere. Try learning everything in the field. I have yet to work with a plc. Have had some clinics on freq. drives, but all they were was a sales pitch. Good for you for going to school and not apprenticing.
 
gar said:
100512-2220 EST

Boognish:

If you work in an industrial plant and just want to change light bulbs, pull wires, play cards, and drink coffee, then you don't really need to know anything about electronics or other subjects related to your plant.

How does a straingage transducer work to measure force or torque? With what voltage levels are you concerned in this application? How does the speed of a permanent magnetic brush type DC motor relate to the applied armature voltage? What methods can you use to measure the current to this motor? How does an LVDT work? ............ And on-and-on.

.
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In our plant, Automation Rules! Electronic theory is first and foremost, IMHO, extremely interesting.
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Exactly... I shoulda took a communications course too.:)
 
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atfu said:
Must be nice to get that training in a nice controlled atmosphere. Try learning everything in the field. I have yet to work with a plc. Have had some clinics on freq. drives, but all they were was a sales pitch. Good for you for going to school and not apprenticing.
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who was this refering to ? just out of curiosity
 
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