Color tape on #8 THHN

[Kdog76]

3 phase lighting project in which we pulled 3 #8's - red, black and white. We are now taping the ends of the white wire blue. This is #8 THHN. 310.12 (C) in my 2005 handbook says it is okay if it is permanently reidentified at termination points and if the conductor is visible and accessible. I thought THHN under #6 if it was white could not be taped.

 

[LarryFine]

3 phase lighting project in which we pulled 3 #8's - red, black and white. We are now taping the ends of the white wire blue. This is #8 THHN. 310.12 (C) in my 2005 handbook says it is okay if it is permanently reidentified at termination points and if the conductor is visible and accessible. I thought THHN under #6 if it was white could not be taped.

I have some good news and some bad news.

The good news is that, while you cannot recolor to make white, you can recolor a white to be ungrounded.

The bad news is that the good news only applies to cable assemblies, not to individual conductors you install.

The idea is that there's no excuse for pulling in the wrong color for a given purpose.

 

[yanici]

I have some good news and some bad news.

The good news is that, while you cannot recolor to make white, you can recolor a white to be ungrounded.

The bad news is that the good news only applies to cable assemblies, not to individual conductors you install.

The idea is that there's no excuse for pulling in the wrong color for a given purpose.

I got some good news, that I liked that explanation. Thanks, Larry.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Hey Dog--- read art. 200.7(C). As Larry stated the white can be re-identified if it is part of a cable assembly not individual conductors.

 

[ishium 80439]

This one has always confused me. If I pull black 4AWG and put colored tape on it no problem, but if I do that to a 6AWG than it is a violation. Why?

 

[Rockyd]

Visit 200.6, a good place to start.

I't been code since at least 1999.

 

[ishium 80439]

I'm not saying it's not in the book, I'm asking why. Do they think that diameter of the wire is too small to hold tape? With most (not all certainly) I can see the underlying point and/ or intent. This one just seems utterly random.

 

[Rockyd]

Seems to be a certain amount of "industry logic" that follows "six and the mix", and "four or more", when it comes to dealing with wire in the industry. Had to be a certain point where the nature of conductors "becomes different".

You see it in 314.16. Again in 314.28.



I'd say call Southwire, for a white paper of some sort for thinking outside of the box.


PS - Great Tagline! Warren Miller, simply the best when it comes to skiing and snow!

 

[Kdog76]

200.6 refers to grounded conductors. I'm referring to a white wire that we will try to use as an ungrounded conductor. I'm not sure that section tells me I can't reidentify a white wire to a different color. I do think 310.12 (c) is not clear enough.

 

[raider1]

200.6 refers to grounded conductors. I'm referring to a white wire that we will try to use as an ungrounded conductor. I'm not sure that section tells me I can't reidentify a white wire to a different color. I do think 310.12 (c) is not clear enough.

Actually 200.6 does prohibit re-identifying a white conductor as an ungrounded conductor unless it is part of a cable assembly.

Chris

 

[cowboyjwc]

200.6 refers to grounded conductors. I'm referring to a white wire that we will try to use as an ungrounded conductor. I'm not sure that section tells me I can't reidentify a white wire to a different color. I do think 310.12 (c) is not clear enough.

Don't get grounded (white) mixed up with grounding (green).

It's simply a matter that the wire companys will make you colored wire in sizes larger than #4, but it's usually special order, other wise you can get in in any color you want as long as it's black.

Man Larry, you've really been on the ball lately. I really liked that answer too.:grin:

 

[Rockyd]

200.6 refers to grounded conductors. I'm referring to a white wire that we will try to use as an ungrounded conductor. I'm not sure that section tells me I can't reidentify a white wire to a different color. I do think 310.12 (c) is not clear enough.

It's a violation if your pulling it in pipe, or other raceway, unlike cable, that is pre-assembled, you are controlling what the conductors are. Start with the first rule -

90.1 (A) and (C)

Check out the definition of Qualified Person.

Check out this graphic -

READ 200.6 and 200.7.

If I tried this in my neighborhood, it would get shot down in a heartbeat. The system would work, just that the AHJ wouldn't have it.

It's your install, your AHJ's. If it doesn't fly, I hope you have the padding for it, in the bid.

 

[LarryFine]

This one has always confused me. If I pull black 4AWG and put colored tape on it no problem, but if I do that to a 6AWG than it is a violation. Why?

Because the rules work with the way cable is manufactured. If you need two conductors, it's black and white. If you need two hots, the code's exceptions tell you how.

The code works with cable as it's made. If you're pulling in your own conductors, however, what's the reason for installing a white when it needs to be a hot?

 

[LarryFine]

Man Larry, you've really been on the ball lately. I really liked that answer too.:grin:

Well, golly!

 

[ishium 80439]

Because the rules work with the way cable is manufactured. If you need two conductors, it's black and white. If you need two hots, the code's exceptions tell you how.

The code works with cable as it's made. If you're pulling in your own conductors, however, what's the reason for installing a white when it needs to be a hot?

That makes sense when dealing w/ cable and with not pulling in a white when you want to use it for an ungrounded conductor. My reading of 200.6 (A) doesn't differentiate between cable and individual conductors.

"An insulated grounded conductor of 6 AWG or smaller shall be indentified by a contuuous whete or gray outer finish or by three contuinuous white stripes on ohter thtn green insulation along its entire length".

That doesn't speak to cable vs THHN in a conduit. I have been popped before for hot tub wiring where I pulled all black #6 and taped the grounded conductor white at the termination. I needed to pull out the taped conductor and pull in a white conductor.

 

[raider1]

That makes sense when dealing w/ cable and with not pulling in a white when you want to use it for an ungrounded conductor. My reading of 200.6 (A) doesn't differentiate between cable and individual conductors.

"An insulated grounded conductor of 6 AWG or smaller shall be indentified by a contuuous whete or gray outer finish or by three contuinuous white stripes on ohter thtn green insulation along its entire length".

That doesn't speak to cable vs THHN in a conduit. I have been popped before for hot tub wiring where I pulled all black #6 and taped the grounded conductor white at the termination. I needed to pull out the taped conductor and pull in a white conductor.

Correct, but for re-identifying of a white condutor in a cable take a look at 200.7(C).

Chris

 

[ishium 80439]

Point taken. I guess I was doing a bit of unintentional thread jacking.

That being said does it make sense to anyone else that you can tape a black #4 white but not a black #6?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Point taken. I guess I was doing a bit of unintentional thread jacking.

That being said does it make sense to anyone else that you can tape a black #4 white but not a black #6?

FWIW- I think this whole taping bit is a crock. I guess it is because of the availability of wires in different colors in the smaller sizes but not in the larger sizes. Can you imagine what a nightmare it would be for the supply companies if they had to carry colors for all size wires?

To the OP

I posted the correct article for you 200.7(C) in post 4. Did you miss that?

 

[LarryFine]

That being said does it make sense to anyone else that you can tape a black #4 white but not a black #6?

As an experiment, call your local supplier and ask what's the largest size THHN/THWN they stock in white.

 

[cpal]

follow the buck, there all questions are answered